On-line Entry System - Requirements/Rules/Solutions

[Mummsie]

We were somewhat misled by British Canoeing - they were sorting out their database not planning an entry system to cover all disciplines. It took a long time to actually discover this!! Mrs CP I m sure CP can update you on that one!!!

There are so many entry anomalies with our discipline not leas the refunding if the event is cancelled that only an expert could even begin to consider setting this up but Dee if you are up for it I suggest you contact Dave Spencer I am sure he will be absolutely delighted to have you on board.

[Dee]

Yes, very well aware of the cancellation issues having been through the process as an organiser!

I think I have a reasonable background to do this, having been an organiser, mum doing entries, ranking officer, IT professional, and, embarrassingly, read the rule book from cover to cover on more than once occasion , but there will be things I miss and I will certainly be twisting a few arms to help me!

I did 'speak' to Dave Spencer before starting this thread as I don't want to step on any toes!

[Vkcmikey]

an alternative to stripe is gocardless. it uses direct debit payments and only charges 1%. It can be set up to do recurring payments, one off or by use of the API custom amounts.

We use it for our membership payments at viking.

[Vkcmikey]

Also i can help with this project with security issues, I'm an IT security consultant. Just let me know.

[Dee]

Also i can help with this project with security issues, I'm an IT security consultant. Just let me know.

Brilliant, will be in touch a bit further down the line I think

[Dee]

an alternative to stripe is gocardless. it uses direct debit payments and only charges 1%. It can be set up to do recurring payments, one off or by use of the API custom amounts.

Do you know if they still charge the admin fee for a refund?

So if Fred Bloggs books into Cardington, but then cancels his entry and we do a refund will he get the whole sum back including admin fee (not an issue with membership fees!)

[Vkcmikey]

no they would still retain the 1% but you make a good point not sure if refunds would be possible on gocardless but they could be given a code to use instead of payment?

[Dee]

no they would still retain the 1% but you make a good point not sure if refunds would be possible on gocardless but they could be given a code to use instead of payment?

This is largely what drew me to stripe - the ability to do refunds and get the admin fee back at the same time - certainly how it would appear in any case.

I have some concerns about holding on to money for future slalom entries. Will post more tomorrow if I have some time.

[Dee]

I've received a message from David Spencer, which I'm adding to this thread (with his permission) so that I can reply here:

Accounting and Payments

• Additional fee to cover payment charges and system running costs
• New rules on refunds – up to 1 month before cancel entry online and entry refunded, between 1 month and 2 weeks before refund at discretion of organizer and in period two weeks before event no cancellation (or extenuating circumstances such as injury, personal problems etc).
• Refunds could be handled as a credit balance against the paddler record to avoid reversal charges. On entry to another competition the balance could be used to fund, or part fund, the new entry.
• Single collection account for all payments and distribution to the organizing body or club, less levies, judging and timing fees:
  • Organizer would need to enter any manual entries received to ensure all entrants to the event were captured
  • Process to produce a set of final accounts showing total fees received, levies and balance to be credited to the club
  • If payments went into a BCU account then the Slalom treasurer would credit the balance to the club via BACS
  • Entries from paddlers who had paid and withdrawn from the event would remain in the central account (if the reversal policy stated above is to be used)
• All the above could take the form of an accounting module.

I agree that we will have to charge an "admin" fee to cover costs

I think that new rules on refunds are a completely separate issue, but the system will need to be sufficiently flexible to permit refunds within certain time periods, so that future rule changes can be catered for!

Credit Balance/Single Collection Account - I think we need to separate out here what we need to achieve vs how we are going to do it. The requirement is, I believe, that we can process refunds without paying reversal charges. However, I think there are two ways of doing this (both of which have pros and cons):
1. A central account where the refund is held against paddlers name for future use - this might seem an obvious route, but I think could have a lot of issues. Pros

• Single account
• More control of slalom committee, less reliance on clubs
• Levies etc calculated centrally, no delay on payment to committe

Cons:

• what happens when the last event of the season is cancelled - there will be paddlers who choose not to continue the following year;
• potentially a heavy load at central administration level;
• delays on clubs receiving the cash that they need to cover event costs;
• potential for disagreements when clubs don't receive the amount they expect;
• requires all entrants to be added to system (potential nightmare for div 3 events)
• potential for lots of silly and not very useful amounts being held as a balance (eg due to year on year increases in cost)

2. Using a supplier (eg Stripe) who permits refunds at no charge
Pros

• No need for slalom committee to act as bankers or for us to develop a banking system!
• Club can start drawing down money from entries a few days before race
• Manual entries do not have to be added to system unless required (particularly applicable to on-the day entries at lower divisions)
• More potential for adding div 4 paddlers into the mix at a later date

• Cons
• Still the need to do the manual returns for levies; though this could be automated later
• Might (I'm not sure though) require all clubs to have a stripe account (though this is very easy and doesn't cost anything)
• Charging structures might change against us

Question Does anyone else have thoughts on the single vs multiple accounts issue

Thoughts on rollout

• Initial target should be Prem and Div1 events as these are already cardless.
• Lower divisions would need cards (or equivalent) to be printed. Might be better to try to bring those events up to a cardless state.

I would definitely be inclined to trial at Prem and Div 1 but would be aiming at divs 2 and 3 to be included by end of first year. Printing cards needs to be kept simple though.

Support of mobile devices

• For example, use of HTML5/JQuery Mobile to give a good mobile experience

Yes we need to support mobile devices, though I think we also need to recognise that some functionality may be harder to use on a small phone screen.

Build vs Buy

• Emphasis on developing a comprehensive specification
• British Canoeing may be open to fund and support a commercial build if functions are relevant for other canoeing disciplines.

I've always had the impression that there is not likely to be any cash available (if there is why has nothing happened sooner?)

[Dee]

BTW - I've posted a number of Questions in my early posts.
Would be very interested to know if anyone has thoughts!

[Mummsie]

Well done Dee so good to see someone with the knowledge and ability to do this taking the bull by the horns and I admit long overdue!!

[Dee]

Well done Dee so good to see someone with the knowledge and ability to do this taking the bull by the horns and I admit long overdue!!

Thanks. Given how many people have moaned about a lack of such a system over the years, I am a little surprised that I haven't had more responses here though. There must be some organisers out there who want the system to do x and y or would look at my list and be thinking "I don't like that!"

I think I wrote too much for people to read; should have kept it shorter and drip fed!