Firstly a big <span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>THANK YOU</span>.
We all know how much effect goes into running a Slalom, so this is a genuine thank you for inviting us to your lovely stretch of water, and setting up a slalom. The weather was perfect, and its rarely that sunbathing while waiting for prize giving is so pleasant.
However, as I put it bluntly yesterday, could I ask you to consider starting the event latter in future? For those of us who have to sort out club boats, drive a couple of hours, fight a one way system, unload and walk in with all the boats and kit, the planned 10am event start is unreasonable, and quite frankly unachievable. I estimate we would have to be out of the door at 5:30am yesterday to make it in time for the planned practice.
You are running a short course novice event, so I think it should be aiming to give youngsters and newcomers time to practice on a different setting and course. I think we probably agree these should be low key and relaxed events in the way they are run. Unfortunately yesterday morning was far from that for those of us who traveled, and in the panic and rush I think most of us didn't get to practice before the first runs.
Hence can I politely suggest for future event you could consider:
- up to 11am free practice
- from 11 organised practice ..
- start at 12?
This sort of timetable works for lots of other slaloms and I'm sure with organised start times you could easily have had prize giving at the same time as you did yesterday.
Also as discussed yesterday, it would be nice if as hosts if you could help out your visitors with information. For instance:
- Start instructions sent to those that provide SAE's with their entries.
- Site information published on the Canoe Slalom site
- Info about the event on your website (I've just spotted you're working on a new one)
- maybe even event adverts or forum posts on this slalom site
- replies to enquiry emails in the weeks leading up to the event
I completely accept and understand we are all volunteers, and these things take time, hence its often not possible to do all of them. But please can I ask that you try to do one or two of them?
<span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>(ps - can I have my unused SAEs back please)</span>
Anyway to end on a positive, it was a lovely day in the sun, and many congratulations to all at Winchester Club on achieving the clubmark status.
To the organisers of Winchester Slalom ... - .. following up yesterdays discussions
Hi Andy
Thanks for your positive opening comments.
Whilst I wasn’t personally involved in organising the slalom, I too recognise the amount of effort that goes into these events. I’m sure anyone who has had experience of the logistics of such an event will testify likewise. I will pass your thanks onto the organiser/s. None of us can accept responsibility for the weather though!
I recall speaking to you at the event and directing you to the organiser. I also spoke to you later. As far as I was concerned I believed you had stated your case (as you acknowledged in your post) at the time and whilst a little surprised to see it raised again here.
I guess your point about sorting boats, driving a couple of hours, coping with permanent traffic conditions, unloading boats/carrying boats may have applied to a lot of people in attendance yesterday. However, none of these are things that cannot be planned for in advance.
I attend a lot of slalom events around the country and accept all of these as part and parcel of participating in our sport. There have been many occasions when I have left home in the early hours to attend an event several hours away.
I personally observed some people turning up shortly after me and believe they had also come a certain distance.
For WDCC, this was not just an ordinary slalom event day, as you have alluded to, and for this reason we felt it necessary to set the start time accordingly. I am of course, referring to WDCC obtaining Clubmark status and the subsequent post-event presentation, with both BCU and local dignitaries present. We had to fit this around the Deputy Mayoral diary.
That is not to say we will not revert to our usual start times i.e. later for subsequent years.
It is my opinion that we, within WDCC, are fully aware of what running a short course novice event is about and generally we do the best we can as volunteers. It felt low key and relaxed for the most part.
I am also acutely aware that we will never please everybody, as many other organisers across the country will surely agree.
If there is ever anything I have been unhappy about at events, and there has been, I often find the best approach is to raise it at the time and ask for someone to get back to me with a resolution. I’m a firm believer in the personal approach.
For the young people, from various clubs, attending their first event yesterday whom I took on the water early to offer guidance, I feel confident in saying they had plenty of time to practice. I would have to disagree with the use of the words ‘most of us’ rather I think this may be a reaction to your particular experience, for which I am genuinely sorry.
As previously stated we are highly likely to revert to our later start times for future years.
Have you attended any previous slalom events at Winchester, when we have not been working towards an important landmark presentation?
In general I guess most other slaloms do not have to contend with a Clubmark presentation. The reason for doing it on the same day was to give the local dignitaries i.e. The Deputy Mayor and Mayoress and earlier a local MP, a flavour of our sport.
I think you may have some salient points regarding the communication, although as I haven’t been involved I can’t comment on the process. However I did personally answer a number of enquiries to our ‘contact us’ e-mail address through the website and this route, failing technical difficulties, is normally available. I will undertake to look into it further though.
I would agree that:-
1 – Information communication, probably easier by e-mail, would be a benefit to those wishing to attend.
2 - Publishing info on Canoe Slalom would be good too.
You are correct we are working on a new website.
I’ll look into the matter of replies to enquiry e-mails.
As to the matter of your SAE’s how many were there? Let me know and I’ll personally send you some stamps if that will suffice.
Also to end on a positive, thanks for coming and participating. Am I correct in saying that I heard either you or your son mentioned in the prize giving.
Best regards
Neil
Thanks for your positive opening comments.
Whilst I wasn’t personally involved in organising the slalom, I too recognise the amount of effort that goes into these events. I’m sure anyone who has had experience of the logistics of such an event will testify likewise. I will pass your thanks onto the organiser/s. None of us can accept responsibility for the weather though!
I recall speaking to you at the event and directing you to the organiser. I also spoke to you later. As far as I was concerned I believed you had stated your case (as you acknowledged in your post) at the time and whilst a little surprised to see it raised again here.
I guess your point about sorting boats, driving a couple of hours, coping with permanent traffic conditions, unloading boats/carrying boats may have applied to a lot of people in attendance yesterday. However, none of these are things that cannot be planned for in advance.
I attend a lot of slalom events around the country and accept all of these as part and parcel of participating in our sport. There have been many occasions when I have left home in the early hours to attend an event several hours away.
I personally observed some people turning up shortly after me and believe they had also come a certain distance.
For WDCC, this was not just an ordinary slalom event day, as you have alluded to, and for this reason we felt it necessary to set the start time accordingly. I am of course, referring to WDCC obtaining Clubmark status and the subsequent post-event presentation, with both BCU and local dignitaries present. We had to fit this around the Deputy Mayoral diary.
That is not to say we will not revert to our usual start times i.e. later for subsequent years.
It is my opinion that we, within WDCC, are fully aware of what running a short course novice event is about and generally we do the best we can as volunteers. It felt low key and relaxed for the most part.
I am also acutely aware that we will never please everybody, as many other organisers across the country will surely agree.
If there is ever anything I have been unhappy about at events, and there has been, I often find the best approach is to raise it at the time and ask for someone to get back to me with a resolution. I’m a firm believer in the personal approach.
For the young people, from various clubs, attending their first event yesterday whom I took on the water early to offer guidance, I feel confident in saying they had plenty of time to practice. I would have to disagree with the use of the words ‘most of us’ rather I think this may be a reaction to your particular experience, for which I am genuinely sorry.
As previously stated we are highly likely to revert to our later start times for future years.
Have you attended any previous slalom events at Winchester, when we have not been working towards an important landmark presentation?
In general I guess most other slaloms do not have to contend with a Clubmark presentation. The reason for doing it on the same day was to give the local dignitaries i.e. The Deputy Mayor and Mayoress and earlier a local MP, a flavour of our sport.
I think you may have some salient points regarding the communication, although as I haven’t been involved I can’t comment on the process. However I did personally answer a number of enquiries to our ‘contact us’ e-mail address through the website and this route, failing technical difficulties, is normally available. I will undertake to look into it further though.
I would agree that:-
1 – Information communication, probably easier by e-mail, would be a benefit to those wishing to attend.
2 - Publishing info on Canoe Slalom would be good too.
You are correct we are working on a new website.
I’ll look into the matter of replies to enquiry e-mails.
As to the matter of your SAE’s how many were there? Let me know and I’ll personally send you some stamps if that will suffice.
Also to end on a positive, thanks for coming and participating. Am I correct in saying that I heard either you or your son mentioned in the prize giving.
Best regards
Neil
Hi Neil, thank you for your detailed reply. Appreciated. Nice to put a name to a face.
I think the key point I'm making is communication, or lack of. Noone from Frome knew of the advanced start time, likewise those friends from Sharks I spoke to were in the same position, and had tried emailing. Hence as I said most of us (from Frome and I believe Sharks) did not get a practice. My son did start a practice run but was told to leave the course at gate 4 ...
IF we had know of Winchesters plans for day, or for the timings, we could all decided what we wanted to do. Thats the key point here, communication. (the SAE comment was obviously a flippant one, for which please accept my apologies.
I'll leave it to the Winchester club to decide if a celebration of a internal club achievement like Clubmark, would have been best be marked at a private club event, or by compromising a public event you are hosting? Thats for the Winchester Club to look back with hindsight on, but I think my personal view is clear from my wording.
I guess each club is different, and that in itself is a reason for celebration. For instance when our club achieved Clubmark status earlier this year the certificate turned up in a Brown envelope in the post. No ceremony (to date).
Lastly, as you say, I did raise this personally on the day, however there are a couple of extra things that I would prefer to share privately, that will help explain why I raised it here. I'll PM you.
I think the key point I'm making is communication, or lack of. Noone from Frome knew of the advanced start time, likewise those friends from Sharks I spoke to were in the same position, and had tried emailing. Hence as I said most of us (from Frome and I believe Sharks) did not get a practice. My son did start a practice run but was told to leave the course at gate 4 ...
IF we had know of Winchesters plans for day, or for the timings, we could all decided what we wanted to do. Thats the key point here, communication. (the SAE comment was obviously a flippant one, for which please accept my apologies.
I'll leave it to the Winchester club to decide if a celebration of a internal club achievement like Clubmark, would have been best be marked at a private club event, or by compromising a public event you are hosting? Thats for the Winchester Club to look back with hindsight on, but I think my personal view is clear from my wording.
I guess each club is different, and that in itself is a reason for celebration. For instance when our club achieved Clubmark status earlier this year the certificate turned up in a Brown envelope in the post. No ceremony (to date).
Lastly, as you say, I did raise this personally on the day, however there are a couple of extra things that I would prefer to share privately, that will help explain why I raised it here. I'll PM you.
Andy
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)
Andy
I don't believe there was any compromise her so no need for hindsight really.
Yep - I think your views are clear and there is no sense me continuing this matter further as I wouldn't like me comments to be open to misinterpretation also.
I already stated I'll look into the communication thing an I will
I'll pick up the pm
Neil
I don't believe there was any compromise her so no need for hindsight really.
Yep - I think your views are clear and there is no sense me continuing this matter further as I wouldn't like me comments to be open to misinterpretation also.
I already stated I'll look into the communication thing an I will
I'll pick up the pm
Neil
Hi Neil,
we've exchanged PMs now and I think we share an understanding of the perspectives.
I hope you don't mind me quoteing you:
Thank you.
EDITED for name
we've exchanged PMs now and I think we share an understanding of the perspectives.
I hope you don't mind me quoteing you:
Fup Duck wrote:Rest assured I will look into the communication difficulties and work fully to resolve the issues to prevent a reoccurrence.
Thank you.
EDITED for name
Andy
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)
It would be nice of you could extend the courtesy of getting my name correct in the pm's. I can't say it bothers me that much but as communication is important to you it might avoid confusion
No objection to you quoting my promises - I keep them
Probably best that you chose to restrict this to the most positive element of our communication anyway.
I'll make one last attempt to reason with you in a pm but beyond that I don't know what other compromise I can offer.
Hoping for an amicable resolution soon
Neil
No objection to you quoting my promises - I keep them
Probably best that you chose to restrict this to the most positive element of our communication anyway.
I'll make one last attempt to reason with you in a pm but beyond that I don't know what other compromise I can offer.
Hoping for an amicable resolution soon
Neil
Neil,
Apart from above I've not heard more that two words from you today, so sorry I don't have a clue what you are on about. I don't know if you're speaking on behalf of Winchester club, so will just move on.
So to draw a line under this I'd like to thank the chair and officers of the club who have written to me today. I'm happy that my concerns have been listened to, and now consider matter as one of water and bridges.
So to close this thread in the same way it started. My congratulations to Winchester on achieving club mark, and sincere thanks for running the slalom.
(photos of which can be seen starting here)
Apart from above I've not heard more that two words from you today, so sorry I don't have a clue what you are on about. I don't know if you're speaking on behalf of Winchester club, so will just move on.
So to draw a line under this I'd like to thank the chair and officers of the club who have written to me today. I'm happy that my concerns have been listened to, and now consider matter as one of water and bridges.
As chairman of Winchester Club I am disappointed to hear that you were unhappy with the organisation of our recent slalom event.
The presentation of the Club Mark award in conjunction with the slalom was done at the suggestion of the BCU in order to maximise the publicity for canoeing. In fact we managed to attract a visit from our MP for the first time.
The Club Mark presentation was run by the people who run the catering for the event so did not impact on the running of the slalom. We did however, start the event at 11:00 which is our usual target time, although it usually slips.
...
I would like to apologise for the poor communication prior to the event and will sort that out.
Thank you for contacting me. I am so sorry that a straightforward concern has seemingly grown into a much larger issue. Rest assured we will address the communication problem and I fully take on board your concerns
So to close this thread in the same way it started. My congratulations to Winchester on achieving club mark, and sincere thanks for running the slalom.
(photos of which can be seen starting here)
Andy
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)
(D1 K1 1981, D2 C1&C2 2010)