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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:15 pm
by JBS
Having come back to slalom races through my kids having a dabble, I am convinced too many youngsters are being pushed through too quickly. Admittedly I'm from a previous era but when I raced competitively (1986-1996) it was seen as a real achievement if you made it to Prem in 4 or 5 seasons. Of course back then there was no in season promotion from Div 1. However, I believe a paddler should cut their teeth on less difficult water and be held back a little. A lot of these kids will get such a culture shock when they get to a Prem race and start getting thrashed. What's wrong with learning race craft? Take a little time to learn the other skills like mental rehearsal, mental strength,coming back from a poor first run or even........ being beat by your arch nemisis??
Certainly I will be practising what I preach and holding my kids back. They will race as much as they want but, it will be in Officials events at higher divisions if they look like they are moving through too quickly.

Anyway, back to the point of this thread. How about rewinding the clock? One official practice run on Sat morning then a team event. Two race runs on the Sunday. If time permits throw the course open for free practice but the serious racers won't want/need it. I know that when I was in Div 1 team event was hotly contested. I still remember the time I won (with my two team mates) the National Div 1 team trophy....presented at the British Open.

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:01 pm
by djberriman
I've often thought its daft that the least experienced go first both from a safety point of view and getting a chance to observe better paddlers.

As for 'reading the water' the best way to do that is without gates, you achieve that by going on white water trips and paddling on courses without gates on to guide you safely down. Perhaps taking to a plastic boat (yikes) so you can experiment without wrecking your boat. Many slalom paddlers only paddle slalom courses with gates.....

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:58 am
by WindsorCC
Just regarding the reverse order for start, going last gives an advantage as you get to see others down the course, and you know what you need to do time-wise when you start (so is a conservative run ok, or do you need to take some risks). Hence the those in the best ranking position, or qualifying position, get the benefit of starting later.

Obviously that's more relevant the further up the sport you go, and probably only makes a significant difference at Div 1/Prem, but does present some issues with catch-up in div 2/3 where the standard is more variable.

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:51 pm
by davebrads
I think the chances of reversing the order making any difference to the number of catch ups is pretty slim to be honest. After all if number 20 boat is slow enough to be caught by number 19, they will also likely be caught by number 21.

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:06 pm
by John Sturgess
I am not entirely clear whether JBS’ post is about racing on rough water; or about the emotional effects of competition; or both.
JBS says ‘I am convinced too many youngsters are being pushed through too quickly’. This cannot be said as a generalisation; and as a judgement on an individual it can only come usefully from a coach who works with a paddler long-term, in training and at races.
The whole issue of divisions is in any case a dangerous distraction, because it averts eyes from the fundamental fact that the sport consists of a lot of people – largely kids – who like racing, and enjoy racing on water as rough as possible; and the sport needs to enable them to do so. It is an issue now in a way that it was not in the period 1986 – 1996 because at least in the earlier part of that period there were Div 3 races on the Washburn and Holme Pierrepont; and the Serpent’s Tail was a Div 2. Paddlers now want/need to get into Div 1 so that they can race on that sort of water.
Apart from coaching c. 120 young slalom paddlers long-term in the last ten years, I run Primary Sportshall Athletics programmes, involving 600 children each year: I see how they react to competition, to winning and losing. The learning process that you want your kids to go through ‘on less difficult water’ is adult-orientated’ cognitive learning. ‘What's wrong with learning race craft? Take a little time to learn the other skills like mental rehearsal, mental strength, coming back from a poor first run or even........ being beat by your arch nemesis??’ Children learn partly visually, largely kinaesthetically: i.e. they learn how to race on rough water by doing it, so that they do it sub-consciously. They enjoy competition, they easily accept losing. They do not have to consciously learn any of the topics you list – they will internalise them non-cognitively.
And finally ‘A lot of these kids will get such a culture shock when they get to a Prem race and start getting thrashed.’ In 2016 the 150 junior paddlers promoted into Prem averaged 317 points per race, quite a few scored over 500 points at least once; some scored over 600 points. Hardly being thrashed!

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:40 pm
by Canadian Paddler
The motion received 36 votes for and 39 votes against, with 3 abstentions. It therefore failed.

Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:01 am
by Dee
Given comments on here, I am surprised that the motion wasn't defeated by a larger margin!