Boat Weight Rules

[HPPaddle]

Does the weight change apply to all divisions and will there be weighing of boats at the lower division races? If small children with light boats are going to have weights fitted, they will want to be sure that everyone is doing the same in order to make things fair.

Alternatively will the weight requirements not be enforced in the lower divisions, as has been the case in the past? I have never seen boat weighing at a division 2 or 3 race so far. I think we could do with clarity so that we don't have either (i) unexpected disqualifications in the lower divisions, or (ii) unfairness caused by some people using weights and others choosing not to.

[Canadian Paddler]

Nothing has changed about the applicability of boat weights. Weights do apply at all divisions, and there could (theoretically) be weighing at a division 3/4 event.

I do not (personally) expect the weighing strategy to change dramatically, this year I was aware of weighing at Selection, Premier and Division 1 events, I woudl expect this to continue.

I always ensured my boats are at least the minimum weight, regardless of the division at which I was paddling, any benefit was not worth the risk of losing my best run of the season.

[Steve Agar]

Do you think we could go for minimum crew weights rather than boat weights next season?

[BaldockBabe]

Steve - that would get my vote!!!

[JimW]

Boats are weighed for championships too, I'm sure at Pinkston Div 1 it was only the boats of competitors in the Vets and Juniors championships that were weighed? Which reminds me I should ask Spitt if he remembers what weight my C1 was, although I think my post Symonds Yat patch up will have ensured it is over 9kg if it wasn't before.

Someone who understands the rules properly ought to take a look at the "what equipment do I need" section on the "How? What?" web page - it seems to imply that boat rules are only enforced at Prem and ICF levels, and seems to assume that everyone will need a 'proper' slalom boat before they get that far (I can't imagine anyone could physically progress beyond div 3 without one, but one day someone might come along and show us otherwise )

Steve - what weight did you have in mind for a C2 crew? I might be able to qualify on my own

[Chris Baillie]

All boats were weighed on 1st runs at the Pinkston div 1.

[James Hastings]

I'm at a loss to understand why the ICF has re-introduced this rule. What issue(s) is it addressing?

Unfair advantage? In that case why isn't there a rule enforcing a standard boat design?

Safety issues? The 9kg rule for K1 dates back to 4m+ boats - why should it apply to boat designs that are around 12% shorter? Furthermore the materials used in boat manufacture these days are much tougher than when the rule was originally introduced. I recently ploughed the front of my slalom kayak at speed into one of the plastic blocks on the second big drop on the Olympic course at Lee Valley and it came off with nothing worse than a few scuffs on the nose.

It just seems like a rule for rule's sake, only helpful for the sales of lead manufacturers.

[WindsorCC]

My understanding is that it's because of new airline rules which are restricting the size of luggage, meaning a move to boats which can be split for transport. I think the issue is that it's difficult for the manufacturers to build split boats that are strong and stiff enough down to the 8/13Kg weight limit, so it potentially gives local paddlers who don't need to use a split boat, more of an advantage.

End of the day for the vast majority of boats they'll be over 9kg after a couple of years of use. I was on equipment control at the worlds last year and most K1s/C1s were around 8.5kg, several over 9kg and I weighed one at over 10kg, and that was after they were well dried out inside...

The biggest challenge I think is probably for paddlers outside prem where boats aren't weight regularly, is having access to suitably scales so they can actually weigh their boat.

[DavidDickson]

This rule makes no sense to me at all - manufacturers will still make non split boats as light as possible and the paddler will add some weight directly under their seat. If this is 1kg then it will be like the paddler being 1 kg heavier. All the benefits of the boat being light will still be available to the paddler as the rotational mass will still be more or less the same ( I am no physicist )

If we are going to look at 'fair' boat weight rules then is it fair to have a 45kg 12 year old paddler paddling a 9kg boat competing against a fully grown 75kg adult in the same weight of boat ....

In my opinion the only reason for a minimum weight rule should be for safety reasons to make sure boats are made safe, rigid and robust. Therefore this 9kg rule should only be applied to split boats - to make them safe.

[DavidDickson]

Further to my previous post -

If the ICF want to increase the minimum weight rule then that may be out of our control but surely it makes no sense to introduce it in the UK domestic divisions. Policing it will just be another job for race organisers to resource and manage.

The only way it would be possible to create an even playing field would be for everyone to paddle the same boat - in the same condition and that is not going to happen.

Are we all going to accept adding at least 1kg to our boats and potentially carrying an extra 4-5kg on our roof racks just for the handful of people who paddle split boats on the international circuit.

Surely in this 'green age' this is not sensible or correct.

This rule change is not a solution to the problem - the additional weight added to a non split boat would have to be distributed to match the weight distribution of a split boat.This rule change will not balance the performance of a split boat versus a suitably weighted non split boat.

The thousands of people this pointless rule change affects throughout the canoe slalom world would be better donating a few pence to the 'Split boat fund' to enable the few split boat paddlers of this world to have a non split boat in each of the world cup venues.

Instead thousands of people will have to spend time money and effort figuring out how to fix a 1kg weight under their seat - and race organisers will have to check they have done it right - absolutely crazy !!

[JimW]

All boats were weighed on 1st runs at the Pinkston div 1.

Must have been just officials that weren't weighed then?

[Steve Agar]

Officials boats may have been weighed (but probably not), but I'm pretty sure Officials weren't weighed. They're not very big scales

[JimW]

I'm mostly in agreement with you David, it does seem a bit odd to be raising the minimum weight and allowing extra weight in existing boats. I don't see anything about this in the current rules, but I'm sure in the mid 90's a friend who was racing at the time explained that there was a minimum weight and a maximum addition to make up the minimum weight so in effect there was a lower weight that boats were built to so competitors could add the weight under their seat to reduce the turning inertia. I assumed that this had gone and extra weight was no longer allowed, if so why bring it back?

This rule change is not a solution to the problem - the additional weight added to a non split boat would have to be distributed to match the weight distribution of a split boat.This rule change will not balance the performance of a split boat versus a suitably weighted non split boat.

Assuming the boats are 2-piece, the extra weight is likely to be close behind the seat - I don't know whether a flange and gasket is used or if 2 full bulkheads are fitted - most sea split sea kayaks use the latter approach and I have seen other boats that use the former, but either way the obvious place for the split not to interfere with the cockpit or the paddlers leg room, is behind the seat, set just far enough back to clear the rim and allow you to get a socket on the nuts.
In that respect it would probably be easy enough to mandate that the extra weight should be a set distance behind the seat (easy to see if it is permanently fixed, or quick release for dumping after scrutineering), but of course that will also mean you have to move your seat forward to compensate for the change in trim.... I wonder if the buoyancy profile of a split boat is tweaked to compensate or the coaming moved slightly forward or anything?

I like your idea of fair boat weight rules, I'm 110kg, can I have a boat weighing -26kg so I have the same draft as the 75kg paddler in the 9kg boat?

We had the opposite problem with kite buggies, lightweight kids were using ridiculously heavy buggies so they could track with a much more powerful kite than they could handle, so FISLY capped the max weight at 60kg, which was half my weight at the time. The challenge then was making a buggy strong and stiff enough for us heavier riders in less than 60kg, mine was always close to the limit (and always flexed a bit) and I had to be really careful to remove any trapped sand in the seat and siderail covers before scrutineering, but still 45kg kids could race with more kite than they could actually handle when not sat in the buggy, and not waste energy in buggy flex over rough terrain.

I don't think there is any such thing as fair weight rules.

On the plus side boats just got a lot cheaper - there is no need to go for top spec, the next or next but one will get you a boat the right weight, until manufacturers realise and add weight to all their specs to maintain the market positioning.

[JimW]

Officials boats may have been weighed (but probably not), but I'm pretty sure Officials weren't weighed. They're not very big scales

Ha ha, that's me that is!
My K1 wasn't required to be weighed, I did it for my own interest as I had made some repairs over the winter but it wasn't written down - I forget what it came out to, 10.5kg maybe? I've added some more repairs since then I've yet to smooth them off and it still leaks

[davebrads]

but I'm sure in the mid 90's a friend who was racing at the time explained that there was a minimum weight and a maximum addition to make up the minimum weight so in effect there was a lower weight that boats were built to so competitors could add the weight under their seat to reduce the turning inertia. I assumed that this had gone and extra weight was no longer allowed, if so why bring it back?

I don't remember anything about a maximum addition, but extra weight has (as far as I know) always been allowed to be added to make the boat up to weight. Top spec boats can be made easily 1 kg under weight and still be stiff and strong, if not great at handling impacts.

When the weight rules were brought in it was to stop people building ridiculously light boats with minimum amount of material and resin. Some of these boats were floppy by the end of their first race, I'm sure that the performance hit from the floppyness was greater than any gains to be had by paddling a light boat.