Veteran working party - Suggestions ?
-
Jerry Tracey
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:09 am
I would welcome a National Vets Championship on a decent standard of water, rather than a Div. 3/4 course. The introduction of age bands at the British Open seems a good idea!
International veteran events sound very appealing - with age bands like marathon masters worlds?? - I will watch for further details with great interest!
Good Paddling to all!
Jerry Tracey (Age 52!)
International veteran events sound very appealing - with age bands like marathon masters worlds?? - I will watch for further details with great interest!
Good Paddling to all!
Jerry Tracey (Age 52!)
Rather than saying those 35-39 are no longer vets, why not have a 30-39 10yr band? After all, marathon racers age groupings for masters races start at 30.
I'm not sure there is any need for any in-season ranking lists. An end of season list like the one I compiled last yr (at the start of this thread) is quick and easy to produce from data that Nick P already has in spreadsheet form. I'd be happy to do the same again this yr.
Age banding is probably out for this yr, unless consent from paddlers can be obtained during the season. Some people might be upset if it was known they were in the 60-69 age band for instance.
Does anyone know if there will be an end of year award this yr for the highest ranking DV paddler, or whether the Vet award will take into account DV paddlers when considering a winner ?
I'm not sure there is any need for any in-season ranking lists. An end of season list like the one I compiled last yr (at the start of this thread) is quick and easy to produce from data that Nick P already has in spreadsheet form. I'd be happy to do the same again this yr.
Age banding is probably out for this yr, unless consent from paddlers can be obtained during the season. Some people might be upset if it was known they were in the 60-69 age band for instance.
Does anyone know if there will be an end of year award this yr for the highest ranking DV paddler, or whether the Vet award will take into account DV paddlers when considering a winner ?
Like Phil, I've been asking peoples views but mainly at Div 2/3. Most Vets and DVs at this level are unaware of the debate going on but do share many of the views and opinions already voiced.
There are, however, some specific points:
- The age of 34 or 35 (the yearbook states 34 for up to Div 2 (rule 6.1) and 35 for Prem/1 (rule 6.3) ) for turning DV/VET is too low, 40 is a general concensus as an appropriate age.
- Both DVs and VETs would like the option of not having automatic promotion from either Div 3 or Div 2. Some expressed a view that getting promoted could cause them to rethink their participation in the sport. Some are however happy to take promotion, not so sure about demotion!
- The option of doing officials runs would not replace VETs for some who want the option of competing but not judge when out of their own division as they want to spend their time coaching, supporting children, etc. rather than being tied to judging stints.
- Age banding and giving prizes based on that would be welcomed, but whether this is 5 or 10 year the same views as already expressed about number of competitors is shared by this group.
So the suggestions are therefore to:
- Start VETS/DVs/Masters at age 40 and introduce age banding for prizes and end of season league.
- Scrape VETs and they compete in the main divisions but with no automatic promotion or demotion. When qualifying for either they are invited but can decline. (Some will have thoughts of "pot hunters" who refuse promotion for several consecutive years so perhaps a proviso that if qualifying for promotion 3 seasons on the trot then automatic promotion takes place.
- Introduce open events at all comps to allow people to compete out of division without having to judge.
As for the National VETS comp - I have not discussed this but I will share a personal view from the lower divisions. I can understand why Div 1/Prem paddlers would prefer to compete on water at a higher standard than Cardington, but Div 2/3 Vets would not want (or be able) to compete on Tryweryn or similar courses. So maybe a compromise of a Div 1/2 course that is also possible for Div 3s to manage but can still offer a meaningful challenge to higher divisional paddlers would be appropriate.
I will continue to ask opinions at lower level events and feedback here.
There are, however, some specific points:
- The age of 34 or 35 (the yearbook states 34 for up to Div 2 (rule 6.1) and 35 for Prem/1 (rule 6.3) ) for turning DV/VET is too low, 40 is a general concensus as an appropriate age.
- Both DVs and VETs would like the option of not having automatic promotion from either Div 3 or Div 2. Some expressed a view that getting promoted could cause them to rethink their participation in the sport. Some are however happy to take promotion, not so sure about demotion!
- The option of doing officials runs would not replace VETs for some who want the option of competing but not judge when out of their own division as they want to spend their time coaching, supporting children, etc. rather than being tied to judging stints.
- Age banding and giving prizes based on that would be welcomed, but whether this is 5 or 10 year the same views as already expressed about number of competitors is shared by this group.
So the suggestions are therefore to:
- Start VETS/DVs/Masters at age 40 and introduce age banding for prizes and end of season league.
- Scrape VETs and they compete in the main divisions but with no automatic promotion or demotion. When qualifying for either they are invited but can decline. (Some will have thoughts of "pot hunters" who refuse promotion for several consecutive years so perhaps a proviso that if qualifying for promotion 3 seasons on the trot then automatic promotion takes place.
- Introduce open events at all comps to allow people to compete out of division without having to judge.
As for the National VETS comp - I have not discussed this but I will share a personal view from the lower divisions. I can understand why Div 1/Prem paddlers would prefer to compete on water at a higher standard than Cardington, but Div 2/3 Vets would not want (or be able) to compete on Tryweryn or similar courses. So maybe a compromise of a Div 1/2 course that is also possible for Div 3s to manage but can still offer a meaningful challenge to higher divisional paddlers would be appropriate.
I will continue to ask opinions at lower level events and feedback here.
Speaking as a Div 2 paddler who enters as a DV (I really don't see the point of separate VET, particularly in addition to DV):
Age banding - Yes. Prizes for Nat Champs and maybe end of season, but steady on separate vet prizes for standard ranking events.
Scrap vets - Yes. Not sure about the no automatic promotion or demotion but I'll let that ride for now.
Open events. Probably a good idea and would tie in with discussion on a previous thread about introducing good river paddlers to the sport, but with no slalom experience, but there will likely be concerns about loss of officials. Open events would also take care of the "no promotion / demotion" if that was stopped.
Regarding a Vets National Champs (presumably banded) it should be on the harder water. If I wanted to take part I would expect to race on the harder water. A Nat Champs just for Div2/3 seems pointless. We will already have the ranking list to see who is the highest in each division (and each band). If the emphasis is on participation by all age groups and abilities we already have that with the Interclubs.
John Kent
Age banding - Yes. Prizes for Nat Champs and maybe end of season, but steady on separate vet prizes for standard ranking events.
Scrap vets - Yes. Not sure about the no automatic promotion or demotion but I'll let that ride for now.
Open events. Probably a good idea and would tie in with discussion on a previous thread about introducing good river paddlers to the sport, but with no slalom experience, but there will likely be concerns about loss of officials. Open events would also take care of the "no promotion / demotion" if that was stopped.
Regarding a Vets National Champs (presumably banded) it should be on the harder water. If I wanted to take part I would expect to race on the harder water. A Nat Champs just for Div2/3 seems pointless. We will already have the ranking list to see who is the highest in each division (and each band). If the emphasis is on participation by all age groups and abilities we already have that with the Interclubs.
John Kent
John Kent