Race Safety

Dadstaxi · Post by **Dadstaxi** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:36 pm

This is a moan / reminder to all competitors.

Having attended both the recent Div 1 events I think competitors need reminding of their responsibilities to their fellow competitors - there is a need for at least two paddlers to remain close to the finish line in order to assist in any rescue following. At both Shepperton & Bala there were times when this was not adhered to despite repeated warnings about remaining on the water from organisors & officials.

The last thing the organiser wants to do is to enforce the rules regarding disqualification of a competitor should they not remain on the water for the required time to assist in rescue if required - however there may be a need to make an example of someone so the rest listen.

Come on guys it could be you that require rescuing one day and how would you feel if everyone had gotten off the river because they had done their run

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:57 am

Well said

I was shocked at Shepperton how many paddlers were getting off early - or paddling away from the end of the course!

TOG · Post by **TOG** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:43 pm

While a level of competence may well be assumed at the levels mentioned above, looking at the results it's clear that not everything went absolutely right for everyone. Apart from the in-built regulated safety aspect (not all slaloms can have safety boats out), it's about laying down a marker to younger paddlers at lower-level slaloms too: paddlers have to be aware of, and look after each other. Disqualification - especially for those more experienced, who should know better - is a salutory lesson.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:08 pm

And not a bank throwline in sight on the Tryweryn!

This doubles the importance of having at least two boats at the finish.

Cheers Graeme

Mick h · Post by **Mick h** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:31 pm

This is one area of slalom that makes my blood boil. I have had this argument on many ocassion with fellow competitor usually younger prima donna's. I have also experienced the lack of willingness of juries and organisers to take action. Disqualification of competitors or even banning them are actions that need to be considered, if a paddler has had a bad race disqualification is not a detterent This is something that needs enforcing before someone gets hurt or even drowns.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:36 pm

It does not surprise me that this issue has come up after what I witnessed at Shepperton (where there is no excuse as it is a mid-level event).

On the Saturday there were two rescue boats on the water for the whole day (one of them being a non-competing friend of mine). When they rescued one Division 1 man they were given a mouthful by the competitior for not taking him against the flow, onto the course to where the starter was rather than to the pontoon. Why would anyone volunteer to do this role if they are not going to get a simple thanks?

When one of the Division 2 girls went for a swim the rest of us went out to rescue her watched by some of the Division 1 girls. They were happy to watch and continue their conversations but made no effort to assist us at all. Bearing in mind that they had to wait for us to do our runs before they could do theirs it seems that they were being purely selfish. In a way it was satisfying to see some of those girls being rescued later in the competition!

Hopefully this was just a one-off and things will improve during the season!

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:22 pm

The onus for this should be with the race finisher, perhaps we should change and the finisher will not release the back-up finish time until at least two further competitors have finished or the last competitor is complete. Race control should not publish a race result until they have the back-up finish time. If you get off the water early your back-up time is scrubbed and your result negated!

Also removes the desire to get off and find out your results - they won't be posted until a further 2 finishers so stay in place and assist.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:36 pm

Doesn't the finisher have enough to do?

I have not been a finisher yet but am about to embark on being on the timing team so I will let you know!

John · Post by **John** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:28 am

To me this rule is more about being seen to provide safety cover than actually providing proper safety. Since the start order is in reverse ranking order, the paddlers waiting at the bottom are generally going to be worse than the person swimming. Are they really going to be able to rescue anyone? As Munchkin story shows, some of the girls he hoped would help with the rescue later needed rescuing themselves.
In any case, paddlers will only be able to help if the the following person swims close to the finish.

If the venue needs a rescue paddlers, I think the best solution would be for the paddlers entered for judges runs who are competent on the water to provide the safety cover.

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:54 pm

Staying on the water for a couple of mins while your fellow racers do their runs hurts no one! and can actively save a swimmer, boat, padde etc - human safety aside - equipment is expensive! If you loose your paddle - let alone your boat at Tully or Llangollen - which you will if there is no one to catch it - then its £200 odd quid literally down the drain and I know other courses are much the same.

a minimum of 2 paddlers are required so they can work together (at least thats my understanding) teaching young paddlers what is exepected right from the start I think is essential. If paddlers really aren't up to acting as at least a float for a swimmer until help can arrive then in my opinion they shouldn't be on the water. The courses are designed for a certain level of paddler so I wouldn;'t have thought this to be too hard.

At Shepperton despite the organisers repeatedly asking competitors to stay on the water - paddlers were getting off early. In my book this shows a singular lack of concern for anyone other than themselves and I agree with the contributor who dubbed some of the racers prima donnas.

I wasn't going to say anything, but after hearing about a rescuer getting a mouthful from a rescuee - when I suggested to one young miss - a higher ranked Div 1 paddler so should have known better - that she should get back on the water until another paddler had come down - I too received a mouthful of abuse. This cannot be acceptable behaviour from anyone at any level in this sport.

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:26 pm

I agree that there is no excuse for abusive behaviour and those paddlers being abusive as well as those leaving the water early should be disqualified

dsamartin · Post by **dsamartin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:42 pm

Whilst the course is designed for a certain level of paddler you must remember that there is no requirement for that paddler to have done any paddling other than slalom--so potentially you have a number of paddlers even in premier and div 1 who have never passed a paddlepower or star test and dont know how to perform a 'safe rescue' I feel that all ranked paddlers should have the knowledge and skills to be able to safely rescue another paddler for theres not much point of paddlers staying on the water after their run if they dont know what to do, it must be pretty scarey for them too!! If we expect people to provide safety then we should equipt them with the neccessary knowledge and skills but don't ask me how we are going to achieve that!! suggestions on a postcard to ........... ???

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:17 pm

I fall into the category of those that have not (until this winter) done any moving water paddling other than at slaloms, I have no stars (and no intention of getting any!) and have not done a safety course (will be doing one in April in readiness for a trip to the Alps). In my K1, I, at the very least, have an ability to rescue someones paddle and/ or give them something to hold on to, even if I am not able to rescue their boat (as deminstrated at Shepperton). If I can do that I am sure anyone at Division 2 or above should be able to.

However, in my C1 I am just about capable of rescuing myself and no one else! I might be able to get their paddle if the water is relatively slow/ flat!!! I doubt that any amount of training will change that!!!

oldschool · Post by **oldschool** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:58 pm

I'm not the biggest fan of current system, as it places too much responsability on a paddler who has just finished a run. The time that I spend after a run is mostly spent recovering and I doubt that I could perform any sort of effective rescue for at least the first paddler after me. I certainly think that a permanent safety boat on the finish area would provide a much better standard of saftey cover than 2 tired paddlers could provide.

PaulBolton · Post by **PaulBolton** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:42 pm

I agree with Oldschool. Personally, I think this rule is ill thought out. When I finished at Shepperton I stayed on until the requisite number of competitors had finished but I knew I was incapable of rescuing anyone given my desperate need for more oxygen and exertion cramps in my arms. I've also thought it farcical when my (then) 9 year old son is told to stay on in case the 14 stone adult following him needs "rescuing" - he is neither physically capable or skilled enough to help.