British Open Race Progression

[Canadian Paddler]

I was asked at the weekend what teh progression for the British Open would be this year. I could not remember, but as it says on canoeslalom.co.uk

Qualification Saturday, Semi-Finals & Finals Sunday. Progression to finals based on ICF rules

ICF Progressiosn can be seen at http://www.canoeicf.com/sites/default/f ... ssions.pdf.

But in essence it is:
Event . . . . . . ..From Heat 1 . From Heat 2 . Total in Semi . In Final
Men’s K1 . . . . . . . 30 . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . 40 . . . . . . . . 10
Women’s K1 . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . 30 . . . . . . . . 10
Men’s C1 . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . 30 . . . . . . . . 10
Women’s C1 . . . . . 15 . . . . . . . . .5 . . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . 10
Men’s C2. . . . . . . .15 . . . . . . . . .5 . . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . 10

See you there - with the British Open Prizes please ready to hand over to this years' winners.

[HPPaddle]

I'm very stupid, so I still don't understand fully.

In K1M, if we are talking about the Prem being in championship format, is that 30 Prem men through from heat one and 10 from heat two? In which case, what happens in relation to the British Open entrants who are not in Prem? Or alternatively, does the 30 from heat one includes British Open entrants? In which case there will be a lot fewer than 40 places in the semis for Prem men.

It would be good if it was clear.

[Canadian Paddler]

I believe that the progression is based on British Open entants, not just the Premier entrants. Not that there are many internationals entered. Last count:
C1W 2, C1M 0, K1M 4, K1W 1, C2 1.

[Princi]

Confirmation please; at the British Open last year all entrants had runs on both days of the competition. I know several people that have booked accommodation on this basis. Can you please confirm that this is not the case and that unless qualification is achieved on the Saturday there will be no runs on the Sunday?
If this is the case, for personal interest, why has the format been changed? This results in people having less opportunity to race on Lee Valley which, in my humble opinion, is a shame!
Also, if for example C2 does not fill the full quota of boats, could the difference not be added to other classes thereby increasing the number of overall boats that get through to the final!
Thanks

[Canadian Paddler]

Changes to the Progression, confirmed today

British Open Progression
Initially Progression was published as being ‘ICF’. Having received the entries, and the water time this has been reassessed and the numbers progressing will be increased as follows:

From Heat 1 C1W 15, C1M 20, K1W 25, K1M 40, C2 0

From Heat 2 C1W 5, C1M 10, K1W 15, K1M 20, C2 5
I
In Semi Final C1W 20, C1M 30, K1W 40, K1M 60, C2 5

To Final, 10 in each event

• Progression will be based on race position irrespective of whether the paddler is Premier, paddle up or International.
• The Premier result will be based on the final result of the race excluding paddle ups and Internationals i.e. position in the final then position in the semis then by the best run from the 2 qualifying runs.
• Paddle up points will be based on the final results list. Any paddler that is above the bottom 40% of Premier paddlers in a division will get paddle up points.
• The British Open result will be based on the final result of the race.

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The fact that this race was to be ICF progressions was published on Nick's site in February, is in the yearbook and is on the calendar art of Nick's site. ICF progression has been in the public domain all season. Last season it was not ICF progression, and the different rules were separately published.

So if you do not qualify you will not have a British Open run on Sunday, but remember that there is a div 2/ Open on the Legacy Loop on Sunday, so all is not lost, you can still race (entry space permitting).

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To try to answer Why?
ICF Progressions
This year the British open has moved from end of season to October, and will be part of a British Canoeing supported multi discipline weekend. In order to fit into that, ICF progressions were proposed last year. and published (as above)
Change from ICF
Now that the entries have been received, the class sizes known, and the water time available for slalom this weekend, it was decided that strict ICF is a harder target than needed, and not consistent across the classes, so progression is about 2/3 with ICF as minimum.

[Princi]

Thanks for the response and clarification; great to see that more paddlers will progress through to Sunday. I personally am aware of "ICF" progression etc. but many new paddlers/parents to the sport are not. Championship format/ICF progression/mixture of the two (that some clubs run their races on), can be confusing.
I would suggest that in the future there could be an extra line within the race information, on canoe slalom, that simply states "if you don't qualify Saturday you will not get a run Sunday". The paddler, or those funding the paddler, can then decide if they're happy to pay £40 (British Open fee as an example) for the potential of only Saturday racing along with the risk of booking & not needing accommodation.
Whilst this may seem obvious to those that have been in the sport for a long time & is detailed in various places, there are now lots of new paddlers/parents that don't fully understand the different race formats.
Once again, my personal opinion!

[CeeBee]

I can see the need to replicate ICF events and have heats, semi finals and finals.

However, to come to Lee Valley for the weekend to possibly only get 2 runs is tough. It is even tougher when junior and U23 paddler are looking ahead to selection and would benefit from more race experience on this site in preparation for Junior selection in 2017. It already hard enough to get enough water time at Lee Valley if you are not based there. Some juniors are getting 3 sessions a week on Lee Valley. Home advantage will always play a part but 'away' disadvantages are only making this worse.

For the best paddlers, who usually make finals, they will get 3 runs i.e. 1 qualification run on the Saturday, a semi final run and a final run on the Sunday. This is 45 paddlers.

For those that qualify from a the second heat on the Saturday and then race in the semi final on Sunday (but not the final) will get 3 runs. The places qualified from the 2nd heat are 50 places.

The rest will only get 2 runs - either 2 qualification runs on the Saturday or 1 qualification on the Saturday and a semi final on the Sunday. There are 200 entrants, so 105 paddlers will only get 2 runs over the weekend.

To me, the compromise was to have the same number of paddlers in semi finals and finals but also have 'B' semi finals and 'B' finals.

I appreciate that trying to work out how best to run this race is not easy, takes a lot of time and energy and there will be other factors that make this the best decision for this race this year. We can only try new formats and see what the feedback is.

[Mark H]

Didn't the format of the open work last year?
Was there any complaints from the paddlers last year about the format?
I agree with Ceebee the more race time paddlers get on LV the better for all.
Thanks for organising the race whatever format has been chosen

[SilverSurfer]

In previous years the enhanced fee had been justified by having a B finals such that all paddlers had 4 runs. What's the justification for the enhanced fee this year?

Whilst it may have said ICF rules, if would have been helpful if the Slalom Committee had made it clear that the format of previous years had changed.

With the increase in paddlers going through to the semi-finals from run 1, many paddlers will have 1 run on Saturday and 1 run on Sunday. They will also have to stay overnight in London, making a long and expenses weekend for the majority of premier paddlers. The event has turned into a showcase for British Canoeing and its elite paddlers at the expensive of the majority of premier paddlers.

It's about time the Slalom Committee started to thing about the premier paddlers who turn up for all the premier races, and not the elite who miss many of the premier races. Premier races should be run on a single day, with two runs, not the ICF format.

Alternatively, British Canoeing could wake up and give equal access to LV for all paddlers not just the privileged few.

[HPPaddle]

We have the same issue at the McConkey and Trywryn. It's not a great format for those on a budget.

[BaldockBabe]

The event has turned into a showcase for British Canoeing and its elite paddlers at the expensive of the majority of premier paddlers.

It's about time the Slalom Committee started to thing about the premier paddlers who turn up for all the premier races, and not the elite who miss many of the premier races. .

If you look at the start list and the ranking list you will see that the majority of the "elite paddlers" (by that I assume you mean team paddlers) on the start list have already raced in 5 prem events this year, which, given that there have only been 7 and one was the weekend after the Euros and one clashed with a World Cup in Prague, shows a commitment by those paddlers to the domestic events.

I don't think it is fair to blame to the elite paddlers for the decisions regarding the running of the events - that is outside of their control.