Women - Canadian

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:54 am

Canadian PAddler wrote:I have heard rumours of one lady (sorry woman) dropping out already, with the scuttlebut being that she was worried about the water. THIS IS RUMOUR AND PROBABLY WRONG, but does the class's image no good.

Yes the rumour is wrong (as most are), she pulled out of the Tryweryn and selections a HPP because of other commitments and as there was never going to be a GB C1W team this year there was little point in attending.

As you pointed out to Munchkin there is a big jump from Div 2/3 to Prem/1 and there has been little time to adjust with the new rankings and local training courses closed over the winter and lets face it it is a new class that has attracted some good female paddlers but they have only been doing it a short time (sorry Kate I know you have been paddling C1 longer) but this has been a very steep learning curve with only three structured two day training camps over last year and nothing this year and I am guessing now no chance of any?

It must be disheartening to paddle your heart out but only come away with a few points when other classes seem to be awarded points more fairly?

What we should be doing is supporting these women more as they one day will be representing GB and not that long away, 2010 I believe is when it all starts which is only 7 months away!

Cheers Graeme

John Sturgess · Post by **John Sturgess** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:35 pm

A lot of talk - so I thought it was about time someone came up with an answer.

I began with Prem results - where the problem seems most serious, with only one paddler scoring more than the minimum in the six races I looked at: so none of the other results will have any effect on end-of-season rankings: everyone else would be equal. But also the easiest, because there is no promotion complication.

Six races - 3 Prems (not the Ski-Slope because only one paddled) + I recalculated the results of the three Selection Races as if they had been Prems.

Divide all Prem C1W results by 1.80 instead of 1.08, and allocate points from KIM as before.

Only 2 paddlers (2nd and 3rd in Selection Race 3) get equal points: otherwise the results give the 1st paddler more than the 2nd, and the 2nd more than the third.

No guarantee, of course, that the same will apply as the season progresses: but a sample of 6 races must be significant. However work will now need to be done to ensure that the interface with Div 1 works properly.

If anyone wants a copy of the calculations (I tried out 1.50, 1.70, 1.80, and 2.00) e-mail me on ECSTCoach@jsturgess.freeserve.co.uk or john.sturgess@gedling.gov.uk NOT through the Board.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:06 pm

Thnaks John, svaed me working through prem.

We need to do the same for div 2/3 as well, unless we want to complicate it with different numbers for P/1 and 2/3.

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:17 am

Is it time to throw in a complication to your calculations? Munchkin and I had a casual chat about 1000 points for a div 2 top points and 800 (not 500) for a div3 top at a 2/3 event. [We were talking across the board not just C1W, but 00:15 is not the time to start that discussion!]

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:33 am

Mmm? Wrong way round I think... but you get the gist! 800 points for the div 2's, 1000 points for the div3's.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:38 pm

Looking at the results from the Div 2/3 at Cardington the points don't seem to work out right there either?

Saturday
Div 2/3 C1 Ladies
Pos Total Points
1 926
2 74

Sunday
1 846
2 77
3 77

On Sunday there was 10 secs difference from 2>3 but they still got the same points?

"Houston we have a problem"

Cheers Graeme

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:12 pm

Okay, so maybe I was a bit slower and should have got fewer points BUT the good thing about the results is that the girl who won in both days is now in Division P/1. Another yucky baby pink bib has found a home!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:33 pm

No that is not the point, it is the huge difference in points between the places that is the problem.

Oh and yes paddling faster is good :;):

Cheers Graeme

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:09 am

Geebs, you do not think that the huge difference in points might also reflect a huge difference in paddling standard? No system will be good with such a small number of paddelrs of such varying standard. If we seperate the bottom end, then we stop seperation of the top end?

I am an old (male) fart, so cannot speak from experiance, so leave it to the ladies to let us know what sort of system they want.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:59 pm

Canadian PAddler wrote:Geebs, you do not think that the huge difference in points might also reflect a huge difference in paddling standard? No system will be good with such a small number of paddelrs of such varying standard.

I would not call 10 secs to be a huge difference, but to still end up with the same points?

Yes I know it is difficult with a small amount of participants, but the current points scoring is not going to help encourage new paddlers?

As a coach I would expect my paddlers to be rewarded in accordance with their performance, on the current formula it seems not to matter if you are second or third the points are the same, so it is either first or?

I am aware we cannot jump ships mid term, but it does need some evaluation before the ACM so things can be altered ready for next season.

JS's 1.80 rule seems a fairer comparison? but lets see what the rest of the year brings.

Cheers Graeme

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:05 pm

[I am an old (male) fart, so cannot speak from experiance, so leave it to the ladies to let us know what sort of system they want.]

I'm no "lady" but I'm more than happy to compare my performance to the men's. My miniscule points reflect my miniscule ability. I don't think it will put anyone off, those of us getting minimum points know we have a long way to go before we are anywhere near P/1 standard (in my case that'd better be never! - so don't try and give me any more points!). It compares ability just fine... we are all as bad as each other down there. Anyone getting higher points should be very proud. (Well done EM, MG, AT and SC).

But the percentage does need adjusting along with the points threshold, but that should be easy enough now there are some scores on the board.

chauffeur · Post by **chauffeur** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:21 am

The field is growing! Four in Div1/P plus Mallory judging at Bala Mill.

There are opportunities out there, Jacquelyn and Alice got to the final in Prague.

Have a go at the days organised in August.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:38 pm

I think there are now 6 in Division P/1 (Alice and Fiona being 5 and 6?).

For anyone considering the C1 camps all I can say is go for it. If they are anywhere near as good as last years they will be good fun. I have expressed an interest already and hopefully lots of others have too!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:40 am

And the taster days are after the selections for the GB team in July, good planning!

I am all in favour of these training camps, but at the moment these are not being followed up by continuous coaching for the ladies which is a shame.

This is a new aspect of the sport so how about some more support from GB Canoeing or the Slalom Committee?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:43 pm

I suspect that the timing is all due to school holidays... They could have selection later but that would leave very little in the calendar to be selected for!

To be honest I think the camps are great and should not be limited to C1W. I gather the camp earlier in the year at Sowerby went down well and I am sure having more at HPP for c1, c2 and k1 would go down very well too. Though I should state that the camps should be open to adults and kids!