McConkey Slalom 2012

[HaRVey]

Hi All,
In follow up to the McConkey, and whilst it's still fresh in the mind I wanted to get rough pole on all of your thoughts of the weekend, as this really helps our planning for year-on-year improvements.
As a race weekend from my observations some things seemed very good, some things not as great, some things were noted in Jury reports for good and bad, but overall, although I may be biased, I thought it was an excellent weekend for the sport.

If you don't mind, please can you either put a score from 1-10 or a comment for:

a. Overall Event weekend

b. Course design Saturday

c. Course design Sunday

d. Canoe-England and HPPCC Come and Try it sessions

e. Olympic Athletes Autograph/Photos and Interviews

f. Saturday Evening (Parallel Slalom/Div 1 Practice)

Thank you

[HaRVey]

a. 9.5 (Music would have been nice all weekend. Toilet facilities being Out of Order and Showers not working all of Sunday, was a real disappointment)

b. Course Design Saturday: I will leave this off for obvious reasons.

c. Course design Sunday: Great Racing course with mostly very High poles, which made it look impressive to race on. However, All the gates bar Gate 12 were probably too high, which made judging difficult. Gate 12, was crazy low throughout the day, and even after being raised was moved back to being low again.

d. 8.0 - Brilliant, and a great addition to the event. This had over 100 people take part across the two days. Improvements, would have been nice to have even more local publicity to get more Nottingham non-kayakers down to take part.

e. 10.0 - The atheletes did themselves proud. Everyone was beaming after meeting them, and Facebook has been full of pictures with kids and medals/medalists, all weekend.

f. Saturday evening - Parralel/Div 1 - as I helped Rob organise this I won't comment as yet.

[g_c1]

a. Overall Event weekend - 9 - Well organized. As a Prem paddler love the qualification/semis/finals format alongside the Div 1 it means both events fit together well and gets younger kids in Div 1 more inspired and can learn from watching the prem too?

b. Course design Saturday - 8 - I love a tight course, however i think it was too fiddley, esp for C2.

c. Course design Sunday - 10 - Perfect. Was tight with lots of options, but you also had to race hard physically too.

d. Canoe-England and HPPCC Come and Try it sessions - Good to have, wasn't involved personally

e. Olympic Athletes Autograph/Photos and Interviews - 10 - Excellent job done by some of our Olympic athletes and coaches, esp Etienne who i never saw not signing something/being in photos/talking about canoeing.

f. Saturday Evening (Parallel Slalom/Div 1 Practice) - idea 10 - However for me personally i would score 6? Attendance was quite low. After a long day i needed to get food etc which is why i missed the event, came back down after I ate to watch the finals, and as a format it is always exciting to watch and compete in. So low score was due to low attendance, due to timing of event, but I don't know any suggestions how to make it better which is a shame because as i said before the format or parallel racing is very exciting.

[Nicky]

A great race 9
B good course but very tight for c2, glad I didn't enter 7
C good tight course with options for all, good effort making a div 1 course suitable for prem and vice versa! 10
D great publicity and great effort 10
E good to see the cool kids with their bling drawing the crowds 10
F it's always hard doing something at a prem race, I was knackered do sorry I wasn't there, maybe something to tag onto a div 1? But always good to try something new! 6

[Neil H]

a. Overall Event weekend - Thoroughly enjoyed as a spectator and by accompanying participant. I recall on a previous year missing my kids run as the event was running early and I noticed it was picking up time again this year. I understnad the reasons for this but feel that an announcement should be made, maybe not for paddlers as it's irrelevant if they are there for an earlier time - unless that is they know it's running ahead but there parent/supporter doesn't - then they could miss out.
Don't recall if there was any mention in pre-race info of powerboat event - might be worth a mention of not i.e. parking camping. Just minor things - 9.5

b. Course design Saturday - challenging but expected he says - 10

c. Course design Sunday - 10 from him. Wish course had been up before it got too dark though and the throng waiting in the cold inevitably led to some boat damage when they poured down to gate 5 and 6

d. Canoe-England and HPPCC Come and Try it sessions - brilliant - good to see loads of boats out - the sun helped 10

e. Olympic Athletes Autograph/Photos and Interviews - Hats off 10

f. Saturday Evening (Parallel Slalom/Div 1 Practice) 10

[andy n]

Maybe a slightly biassed S&S view but agree with most of the comments posted. Saturday course too tight and fiddly without sufficient consideration of C2's especially, Sunday course spot on.
I was busy with the event so didn't get to see too much of the "Come and Try It" or meet the athletes - Lizzie thought it went well. Parallel slalom good but how to attract better support is a challenge.
In my view the two courses should be designed together with a view to minimising the course change time and then maximising the practice opportunity for the Div 1 paddlers. The best practice opportunity was early Sunday morning. Fantastic to see so many young paddlers on the water at 7.00am (lots of Scots, take note England and Wales!).
One after event discussion to make better use of the time available and to avoid such a late finish on Sunday suggested running the Saturday Premier to earlier schedule and then fitting in the semi finals late Saturday afternoon - any thoughts Prem paddlers?
Now I'll put my head above the parapet - the judging was poor with no consistency to the tough calls being made and I would not lay most of the blame with the less experienced gate judges. On the same sections, on the same moves, with the same/very similar execution of the move, 50's were either given or not. Judges are rotated and what one set of judges call is definitely not the same as another. A majority of spectators are in the stand and their view is different to that of the judges and maybe not the best view. But on some sections the judges were not best placed either to make the calls they were making which begs two questions - 1. Why were they not better placed? 2. What happened to benefit of doubt to the paddler? So to conclude, this did detract from the event because the finals start line did not reflect actual semi-final performances and the results in the final did not reflect final performances either. And remember, this was also wild card selection to next year's GB selection series.

[anna-lou]

I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend thought it was fantastic, ran on time with what appeared very little problems. This was the best div 1 this year so far in terms of ease with entries, course set-up, timing etc etc.

The course design on saturday was great, good challenge as a div 1 paddler.


The course design sunday was probably the best thing about the weekend, i feel that the course set a challenge without causing carnage and gave people options who were less confident, it integrated the use of staggers, stopper moves and wave crossing- i think it was a course which gave people the need to do a variety of skills/moves in preparation for prem which has been lacking at other events in order to either avoid multiple swimmers/ penalties and make suitable for lower division paddlers if its 1/2 event. This for me was the highlight of the weekend.

All the extras were great with come and try and athletes autographs etc was a really good weekend for the sport. The only things that were disaapointing were probably those out of the organisers hands such as no showers, the toilets being lacked from midday on saturday.

Also the course set-up for practice took a long time on saturday afternoon and only left 30mins to practice the last 5 gates which were overcrowded causing people to damage boats etc.

But all in all was brilliant well done S & S and the course designer

[HaRVey]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
We will keep checking this post until the end of the week. To see if anyone else has any thoughts, but thank you to everyone who came along to support, and for your positive comments and constructive criticism, so far.

Thank you
S&SCC

On a personal Note:
In relation to point b. Course for Saturday.

I set the course on Friday evening, I was in a rush as i had to return to school to parents evening...I conceed that the gate sequence 8, 9, 10, was too tight for c2's, and could have been wider spaced. But apart from that, i defend the course entirely. The entire course has been labelled as fiddly, however, the majority of the course was TOUGH, but not fiddly.

It was a challenge, and every person I heard near the course was talking about a different section of it, the moves were not muscle or ridiculous crunch moves, (as C1W and judges were able to complete the course without 50's), but there were a lot of sections which were technical, and meant you had to prepare for the sequence of gates before you got to it, instead of necking the gate last minute and carrying on, as it appears is the current trend, work had to be done to set up the boat prior to the gates. This is the level of difficulty we should be aiming for now that we have shorter boats, which are easier to manouver.

Statement 1 for discussion:
I believe this is the STANDARD ALL PREMIER courses should be aiming for. (Baring 8,9,10). If every premier course was this difficult, every paddler in Prem would be better. Obviously initially it would be difficult, but it would raise the standard of paddling down the division, preparing all of our paddlers for racing, and better preparing them for racing abroad.
Evidence:
Noticeably, the course though tough and with a fiddly section, was nearly exactly the same length for Joe Clarke and Joe Morley, on both days. (evidence that they are very able paddlers who could race on the course)
The top 10 men were split by over 10 seconds after 1st runs.
There was 1 clear run in the K1w
There were no clear runs in C2
There were 4 clear runs in K1M.
This shows that the majority of Prem struggled on a hard technical course, but it was possible to get down cleanly. (Even if i wasn't the person to demonstrate as such with a 50 on one run and a touch on the other)

Statement 2 for discussion:
Where possible, we should do Championship format races for Prem races.
This better prepares the paddlers for racing abroad.
This gives Premier paddlers more water time for their entry.
This means there are more Premier judges on Sunday.
This means the Div 1's have a better understanding of how top paddlers would approach a course.
This means Div 1's have a greater number of role models to come in contact with, on and off the water.

Anyone else have a view on this? Something to raise at ACM level?

[boatmum]

i totaly agree with you

I personally think this is a good model for improving the standards at Div 1 and prem

Did "feel" for the C2s on Satursay on the gate 8, 9 10 sequence but youve addressed that

Good job !

[Jaytee]

Only attended Sunday, so can't comment on Saturday.
Agree with much already commented on: organisation/timing etc. all spot on.
Lack of showers/limited loos were disappointing, though these things happen.

My main comment regards the course difficulty. Most posts suggest people are very happy; the Prem paddlers were tested, this is the standard we should be aiming for etc. I can't disagree.
However, I believe the course was overly challenging for many of the Div 1 paddlers. From a quick look, only 6 of 34 K1W completed 2 runs without missing a gate; only 6 of 18 C1M & 29 of the 80 K1M. I appreciate this points towards close racing & sorts out those with technique & ability. It was also daunting to many, particularly the more recently promoted.
There is a thread elsewhere on the Board about Div 2/3/4 races - my point is that successes on Div 3 or even Div 4 courses is very poor preparation to tackle the course as set out. More particularly, there are very few opportunities between 'easy' 2/3 races and P/1.
This isn't an argument to 'dumb down' HPP; but is there a need to think about bridging the gap between Div 3 standard (that Div 2s race) & this?

[patientmum]

When will the wild cards from last weekend be published?

[alldaypaddler]

I'm pretty new to Div 1 and so at the bottom of the pile in terms of skill at the HPP race. i did find the sunday course hard, but i liked it that way. i got 50s on both runs. but that doesn't mean the course should have been easier. There'd be no point in racing if I could do all the courses well already. i enjoyed being able to watch the better paddlers tackle the course, and learned from their technique. i think that not just prem races, but div 1s as well should be up to high standards. at div 1 level, most people aren't just racing for something to do - most people want to actually be good. so challenging them is the right idea.
i know that although i'm doing pretty rubbish in races now, i will be better with practice.

as for the saturday course, i wasn't paddling but watching was definitely good. it was nice to see prem paddlers being challenged by a course. not sure how financially viable championship format races are?

[John Sturgess]

jaytee writes:
It was also daunting to many, particularly the more recently promoted.

Interesting example of seeing what we expect to see

In fact in KIM almost exactly the same proportion of newly-promoted Juniors got a 50 on at least one run as of Seniors who were already in the Division at the start of the season (68% - 66%) and the same applied when looking at those who got 50's on both runs (18% - 15%). I thought the older paddlers looked considerably more daunted!

Excellent courses both days in my opinion, in terms of doing what they were meant to do. Particularly interesting on Saturday how many Prem paddlers underestimated the need to slow down for gates 8-10; and how many 50ed the Plughole, a move that I routinely teach to Div 2 paddlers.

[Canadian Paddler]

My biggest worry over 8-10 was combining a two pole gate and two one pole gates.

Severl Gate judges seemed to have trouble understanding the sequence, so what chance would the general public have? In my biased way, if 8 was a flush gate, 9 & 10 should have bee two pole gates (even if wide ones to preserve the move) or the four poles should have been four one pole gates.

Apart from that I cannot comment on the courses as I did not paddle them, just sat and looked at one part for a long time. . . .

I stand to be corrected, but at non pumped courses, championship format should be no less financially viable than any other format. The extra water time does not cost, it just means a longer day.

[Nicky]

As stated previously courses were excellent including rv's caveat. I do think that we should have more tough ones that make us think...

However, not sure about championship format? Not everyone in prem is looking to race abroad and if you easily make semis, Saturday's a waist of time! Contraversial I know.

In terms of shortening to day, how about practice on Saturday afternoon for div 1?

Another point, which I take no credit for, was suggested by a lovely lady at interclubs, why not have a prem/1 weekend with k1m Saturday and everything else on Sunday or some other mix up. Have very different courses so that more paddlers can judge and hence get div 1s racing on prem courses...

I think that the season should comprise a variety of race formats with various aims. 1/2 s to give the 2s a go at tough water/ courses. Prem ones for the 1s, a couple of championship type ones, whole weekend as suggested. Natural rivers, wear slaloms, concrete ditches, variety is the spice of life!

Talking of acm motions, not sure if it is valid here or needs a separate thread, but I'd like it to be discussed at the acm about which courses can have prem races and which ones can't. And could there be a mechanism put in place to at least not completely rule out a serpents tail race or even a Washburn every now and then. Especially given that hpp et al are all starting to cost the earth, which is all money spilling outside the sport... (I'm not a fan of both of these courses, but some people are!)

I hope that's what you were after when you said discuss!