Is Div.1 K1 Men Too Large?

[Seedy Paddler]

Scottish Champs have taken Div 1 places away at Tully. ...

Sorry totally unfounded and erroneous, Scottish Champs are and have been a totally separate event and do not impact the Div 1. Keep to facts please.

CD

[cookie]

Seedy paddler I know you know I meant 'selection' not 'champs'. Forgive my error in using the wrong word.

I am purely frustrated (and I am not alone) by Div 1 paddlers not being able to get an entry to their events. Something is very wrong for this to be happening.

Ali

[boatmum]

well im not certain but I dont think there is a waiting list for the Tully race on the Saturday and there are by my rough count only 10/11 non div 1 paddlers competing for Scottish selection on that Saturday. The problem day appears to be the Sunday and thats the Pan Celtic day.

I think entries are just being sent in much earlier than in previous years and it has taken a lot of people by surprise it could also be that the Pan Celtics are becoming more competitive than in previous years? I think Nicks suggestion of separate PCs is a good one - just need to find organisers


I belive a similar situation is evolving for the Welsh Pan Celtic in June

[James Hastings]

Given the devastation wreaked on the div 2 race calendar for this year in terms of challenging water, I'm really not very sympathetic to div 1 paddlers whinging about entries. At least you've got some decent water to compete on as long as you get your entry in early enough.

My concerns over the portable points system for 2016 are just being heightened by all this news that div 1 races are getting booked up months in advance. The bottom line is portable points as a system will be dead in the water if there is no room for div 2s to paddle at div 1 events, given that higher division entries will be given priority.

Thus we may end up with the scenario next season that div 2s find it impossible to get a race at div 1 events, other than as judges, but have lost almost all their own challenging water events. This I believe will be a recipe for disaster. At the very least we are likely to lose all div 1 demotees from the sport as they are likely to view the sort of div 2 calendar we have for this year with horror. You may also well lose a significant proportion of the old dinosaurs like me who lurk in div 2 but enjoy challenging water.

I hope this this isn't going to be the end product of these changes, but I'm increasingly fearful that it will be.

Cheers,
James

[Happychappy]

I concur with James, I think he has put forward a well thought out argument for not going with portable points.

[jjayes]

There are many races around Europe where they have great water to race on. Get out there and do some, it will be a great experience and will help improve your racing no end. Many are not that far away.
It's almost always cheaper to fly with the boat and hire a car than it is to drive and it takes far less time.
Getting a group together for such races would be easy via the website here. Apply to enter via B.C.U. Slalom admin, if they do not play ball go anyway as long as no national teams are going. You can contact organisers via ICF Web site.
While away make international friend and ask them about races they have locally
It's a big World out there just waiting to be raced on.
Also there is currently 1.39 Euro to the pounde the best it has been in many years making your trip even cheaper.
France is a great option as the level of racing is the best standard there is. At the Worlds the top six MK1 were all born in France!
Have fun.

[Sven]

Ah - but could it be the sole focus is getting into Prem? - So the actual canoeing becomes secondary? - sorry VERY provocative but thought I'd throw it out there

I think there might be huge coach and parental pressure on youngsters to get into Prem (more controversy)

There is no getting away from it, it's an expensive sport whichever way you look at it, so I think the "investment" concerns might sometimes over ride the enjoyment?

I know I've seen some pretty miserable looking youngsters at the side of courses while their parents have been berating them for not doing better on their run, and I'm sure others have too - sad really

[jjayes]

Sven, almost anybody who puts in a bit of constructive training time can get to Premier. The standard is not that high in most classes when compared to many other countries. That is why it is important to get away and see how other nations do it. The problem some UK paddlers have is when they make a national team it is a great shock to race abroad.
I would also say there is quite a large technique gap in MK1 between UK and some other top international MK1's. This needs to be corrected early on in a paddlers career, so again get abroad and see how you compare! Just racing in Premier or div one will not do it for you if you have real international ambition. Its probably fun too.

[Sven]

I'm not disagreeing with you

[jjayes]

I know that, how could you!

[Seedy Paddler]

Whilst both of you are correct, unfortunately many do rely on the support provided on the proscribed athlete pathway. Hence there may be a focus on domestic results over paddler development. there are already significant young Scots paddlers with some International standard experience and achieving high performance levels. Unfortunately they are excluded from Scottish Institute support, performance funding and NGB support because they have elected not to follow the performance pathway. In some part due to the intransingance in relocation of coaches to support the paddlers. Rather the paddlers are required to pay for the programme and arrange to travel to the proscribed sites.

Not only doe we need flexible and enlightened paddlers and parents but also flexible and enlightened performance programmes that deal with the paddler product rather than some blazers controlling the cash.

CD

[jjayes]

Seedy,
I know it is a bit of a mess in Scotland at the moment and may take a long time to settle down. In the mean time there is no time to waste for the paddlers and they best do what the feel they need to do as individuals.
As they say you can not keep a good man down, you can bet if they get very good the programs can not ignore them and will then claim them as their own succes. It's just how it works, human nature I suppose.

[Seedy Paddler]

Keep paddling - see http://youtu.be/x2ihBZkI2n4 for some inspiration..

[James Hastings]

No slalom paddler should have to travel abroad to be able to experience decent courses on challenging water. If that is the implication of a recent post on this thread then that would suggest to me that there is something seriously wrong with slalom in the UK.

Incidently, I have paddled in France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Slovenia, Turkey, the USA, and New Zealand, as well as throughout the British Isles, but as a river runner not racing slalom. But that is central to my point. I have run, and continue to regularly do so, grade 4 water and have even run a few bits of grade 5, but as an old and slow div 2 slalomer, I am now reduced to races on grade 2 water at best in the 2015 calendar. I'm increasingly wondering, why bother?

James

[jjayes]

No slalom paddler should have to travel abroad to be able to experience decent courses on challenging water. If that is the implication of a recent post on this thread then that would suggest to me that there is something seriously wrong with slalom in the UK.
James

One of the things that is seriously wrong is that ALL of the Slalom (White Water Courses) as some changed their titles once established, were built on the back of slalom. Now Slalom despite their previous support is now charged a very expensive rate for using them. In many cases Slalom can not afford to use them or the time is not made available for Slalom use. To add to the problem Slalom has also moved away from some very good natural courses because of exaggerated safety issues or possible boat/people damage on "real rocks" remember them.

What should have happened when asked to support such projects is that powers that be in Slalom should have come up with some sustainable and affordable use agreements.

I fully understand the commercial constraints of running such courses, but when public money is used the subsidise their running and also used to build them then the stake holders including "Slalom" needs to also get a return for their support.