musings on the sport

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
Sven
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musings on the sport

Post by Sven » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:51 am

Having looked at the ever increasing demands on event organisers in canoe slalom I wondered if anyone else had had similar thoughts about our sport's future:

Gratifyingly demand for event entries appears to be on the rise - for whatever reason - and hopefully this is across all classes -but that's a separate discussion

The legislative demand on organisers is ever increasing for example there is notice for the need for clubs to have at least 2 or its number attend an Event Safety Management workshop and also a heads up re food safety, I suspect attendance on some sort of food safety course is probably in the offing in the not too distant future. All sensible measures to keep competitors and the public safe - at least clubs can point to their bits of paper and refute liability.

There is a constant call for help with safety, judging, course erection, destruction, car parking - the list is endless and I take my hat off to those who do this for the sport. As is usually the case in all voluntary persuits the larger load is often carried out by the few.

In an arena where entry fees will have to steadily increase to meet venue charges, I dont think there will be a stampede to help out, because the perception may increasingly be why volunteer at an event where you've had to pay "a lot" to enter?

I am speaking mainly about higher division races - where now you even are required to pay to go and watch at a certain venue :-).

Other sports have dealt with this by professionalising the whole event. ie a specialist company is brought in to provide safety, first aid, crowd management, catering, course management, entry admin etc The entry fees are pitched at a level to cover the costs.

Maybe in the not too distant future this will be the way forward for slalom races at the top end of our sport as it becomes. increasingly difficult for volunteers ( many of whom also have their own jobs, familiies etc) to keep on top of the ever changing legislative and management requirements of top end races in an arena where the demand is for an increasingly professional approach.

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davebrads
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by davebrads » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:46 pm

I actually hadn't spotted this up to today:
Events Safety
What will the committee do if organisers simply refuse to go on the course? Cancel the race? I for one am not at all happy about this, and it could mean me giving up organising events. And I can see it being VERY difficult to find two volunteers from the club to attend the course. I have been on enough courses now to know that they are only teaching common sense, and therefore it is less to do with improving the sport than covering somebody's backside.

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davebrads
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by davebrads » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:47 pm

Can I just add that I am feeling VERY ANGRY at the moment.

CeeBee
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by CeeBee » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:04 pm

I totally agree with Dave. Volunteers are being treated as mugs.

So not only do we have to give up many hours so that events can run and paddlers have race but the governing body want us to pay £10 per person to attend a training course to run an event.

Surely, the Governing body could cover this charge since the events are in their best interest as by running events, we get paddlers to participate in slalom and hence join the BCU/SCA. From my perspective, exactly what support does the governing body give the technical disciplines either financially or in time. In Scotland, none of the membership fee is used to help any the technical committees and therefore the sport.

For paid employees of the BCU/SCA, training courses for employees are paid for by the employer. Volunteers are being expected to behave as unpaid employees and so should get mandatory courses centrally funded. And a final sting, is that people who are only volunteers e.g. Section Judges and Committee members have to pay the annual membership fee to the BCU/SCA so that they can give up their time to support the BCU/SCA.

James Hastings
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by James Hastings » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:08 pm

Interestingly, if you go to the recreational paddlers main forum on the UKRGB site, you'll find plenty of threads complaining that the BCU only spends its money on the competition elements of the sport. If they are not spending on either recreational or competitive paddlers, it begs the question, what the hell is it spending its funds on?

James

CeeBee
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by CeeBee » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:49 pm

all paddlers should be able to coexist quite happily and support all branches of the sport that any of their fellow canoeists do.

May competitive paddlers also participate in the recreational elements too. I think it is great there are so many branches to the sport and would have hoped that all get the support from the NGB to develop.

Ringfenced money comes to the BCU/SCA/WCA to spend on performance. If there was no competitive successful branches of canoeing, the National Governing Bodies (NGB) wouldn't get this funding from SportScotland/Sport England/Sport Wales. The BCU/SCA still have all the other money they get through membership and general grants to run the NGB. I know that no contribution that paddlers make to the SCA through membership fee gets spent on competition. And in fact, some on the SCA board are openly hostile towards competition.

Most people who compete in competitions are not actually getting any of this performance funding as this funding is, quite rightly,only for those who will end up on GB programs.

However, I sometimes things it suits those employed to allow recreation to complain about competition as it means they are not complaining about how the NGB is run.

Phil Stevo
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by Phil Stevo » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:22 pm

Dave - You have a right to be VERY ANGRY. the world is going barmy!

A couple of years ago David Cameron stood up in parliament and said the voluntary sector needs to be deregulated (particularly around over zealous heath and safety procedures) to make life easier for those who volunteer their time.

Low and behold the BCU ramps up its regulation. Add this to the amount of time and money needed to become a volunteer coach with the new coaching system, it is as if the BCU want to make it as difficult as possible for people to be able to volunteer and to go canoeing!

Phil Stevo

djberriman
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by djberriman » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:34 pm

This is because the insurers insisted on it, they were I understand quite surprised at how BCU events as a whole are run and that there is no formal structure for things like safety. The requirement has come about after a review by various bodies including the HSE an incident at a marathon.

I agree that I do not understand why as usual it has been passed down the line to volunteers and that those volunteers are expected to give up their time and pay for the privilege of providing a service for the BCU.

That said the course is a short one and will be teaching many to suck eggs, is for the moment just another piece of paper to have and will no doubt need renewing, it did however mean many of us on the course had a good discussion about safety issues (not just in slalom) and shared some ideas and will be sharing resources in the future so that we may learn from each other and maybe pickup some things we hadn't thought of.

Phil Stevo
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by Phil Stevo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:22 am

David Cameron's point was about not applying industrial standards of regulation to volunteers.

The most dangerous thing about running a slalom I think is building courses on natural river sites. If this activity attracted industrial level risk assessments then professional riggers and scaffold inspectors would be needed to run Howsham slalom for example. Instead of people who turn up for free because they quite like climbing rotten trees and teetering across weir tops with scaffold poles on their backs.

Sven
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by Sven » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:02 am

I blame the lawyers :?

but I guess it's a fact the world is an increasingly litigious place.

Neil H
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by Neil H » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:07 pm

I always wonder about safety at events but not usually over anything that an organiser has done.

I've said it on here before and pretty sure others have too. My particular concern is how slalom paddlers react if they swim or have to take a rope - floating vertically, feet under the water, not swimming for safety etc. I could go on. If we are gonna start having safety workshops perhaps a bit of thought should be given to this before we put the onus on the organiser.

I'd wager that most safety issues might occur on the water - the rest is common sense as Dave said

I am by no means saying that all competitors do this, especially not those who paddle rivers as well, but those who just do slalom maybe

BaldockBabe
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by BaldockBabe » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 pm

Neil H wrote: My particular concern is how slalom paddlers react if they swim or have to take a rope - floating vertically, feet under the water, not swimming for safety etc. I could go on. If we are gonna start having safety workshops perhaps a bit of thought should be given to this before we put the onus on the organiser.
Good point, well made.

Sven
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by Sven » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:59 pm

Some sports tequire participants to be licensed to compete.
maybe - and I am just spitballing here - paddlers need to have demonstrated a level of safety awareness in terms of how they react to situations on the water in order to get a license to compete?

CeeBee
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by CeeBee » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:08 pm

For Div 3/4 , I would argue that this is not required as these are generally on fairly flat water. However, i can see some merit in paddlers having to sit say their 2 star to say they are competent to paddle at certain races.

BaldockBabe
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Re: musings on the sport

Post by BaldockBabe » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:13 pm

Unless it has changed in the last few years the 2* didn't deal with ww safety, just exiting the boat. Any paddler looking at paddling on moving water should do a ww safety and rescue course.

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