English and Scottish Squad criteria for 2015-2016

[Jem]

A new parent has asked me where they can find out the criteria for their 12 year old son so that they can try to understand what age and how you get into one of the squads over the winter.

I've had a hunt on the internet and found the Canoe Scotland performance document for their Vision and Horizon - all 35 pages of it and a very interesting read - (http://canoescotland.org/sites/default/ ... inal_1.pdf.

On page 20 it refers to Delivery: Notional Achievements i.e. what you need to achieve to get in the squad . (The notional achievements mentioned below are for guidance only. This is to help outcome focused athletes to identify where to sit at different stage of the pathway. However, we invite Coaches, Athletes, and any individual involved in goal setting to take a holistic approach bearing in mind the overall athlete profile. This is also important to identified SMART Goals (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time bounded), with a good balance of outcome focused goals (where to be) and process focused goals (how to get there). In addition to that notional achievement guidance, quality key performance indicators have been evidence throughout the pathway. In Slalom this is evidenced through the percentages expectation (see appendix 3, Page 25). In Sprint this is evidenced through the GMT (see appendix 4, Page 26). This has been development by British canoeing and is used as a criteria for selection into GB Team as well as criteria for nomination into other home nation’s performance programmes. Our Performance Staff will also use this indicator as part of inclusion evidence.)

Achievements for Scottish Juniors seems to be
1. Made Junior GB team i.e. in selection in March 2015
2 For J17, was in top 6 at Junior selection
3. For J16, was in top 8 at Junior selection plus top 5 at J16 Champs (not sure if it is both or either)
4. J15, in premier
5. J14, in top 10% of Div 1 plus top 5 at J1 Champs (again not sure if this is both or either and seems to imply this could be horizon/club level

So how notional are these achievement e.g. if you are 9th as a Junior 16, I suspect you would be considered but if you were say 12th does that put you out? Is there a minimum age? Scottish system seems to imply J15 with younger paddlers in the club system.

Does anyone know where the same criteria are for the English Squads?



[Neil H]

any use

http://www.canoeslalom.co.uk/info/Engla ... eria14.pdf

[Jem]

thanks - i'll pass it on. I see it is dated March 2014. Is there a later version?

So, there are 3 main English Squads for U18s
England National Talent Squad (ENTS) – Supporting under 18 junior athletes who are in the Premier Division and seeking selection to the GB Junior Team.
England Super Regional Squad (ESRS) – Supporting under 16 junior athletes who are in Division 1 or above and have rising performance profile.
Regional Talent Academy (ERTA) – Supporting under 16 junior athletes who are regularly competing in National Ranking System competitions in Division 2 or above, who have a rising performance profile and are seeking to perform and progress through the national ranking system.
A fourth squad, the England Performance Squad will support a few athletes who fall just outside the criteria for the England National Talent Squad or the Podium Potential Programme but are on an upward performance curve and show the potential and commitment to progress to Podium Potential level. It is not envisaged that this squad will support athletes who are former members of the UK Sport funded World Class Programme.

Do you know how much the squads cost to join?

[SilverSurfer]

There is a very minimal cost up front with additional costs throughout the year depending on location/duration of the training camps.

I wouldn't try to compare the Scottish and English Programmes, they are very different. The Scottish Programme is very detailed and up front with what is being offered for the cost, the English Programme evolves throughout the year.

Selection onto the English squads is also not clear cut, and does vary across North, Central and Southern squads. You also need to take into consideration coached support being offered, which isn't documented and does differ by squad and region.

Finally, I wouldn't say it is an English Programme, more of an offshoot from British Canoeing. England having its own identity is a long standing concern and issue.

[Neil H]

thanks - i'll pass it on. I see it is dated March 2014. Is there a later version?

PM'd you

[Neil H]

SilverSurfer's comments seem valid

[Seedy Paddler]

I wouldn't try to compare the Scottish and English Programmes, they are very different. The Scottish Programme is very detailed and up front with what is being offered for the cost, the English Programme evolves throughout the year.

I wouldn't get tied up with SCA Performance - it is not really recognised by most of the top Scottish Slalom paddlers is highly centralised and myopic in their view.

[ringorayner]

Finally, I wouldn't say it is an English Programme, more of an offshoot from British Canoeing. England having its own identity is a long standing concern and issue.

I'm sorry to say that from the perspective of other Home Nations it appears very much to be an English programme, with British Canoeing looking more and more like an offshoot of England, rather than the other way around: this is probably not the place to debate this - but I couldn't let this pass without at least a brief comment from Wales

[SilverSurfer]

Debate or not, the coaches who run the England Talent Programme are part of British Canoeing, and therefore the England Talent Programme is an offshoot of British Canoeing.

Simple fact there is no England identity. The England Talent Programme is not run by Canoe England, there is no Canoe England for Slalom, whereas for the Scottish and Welsh Talent Programmes they are run independently by SCA and WCA.

British Canoeing and England are one of the same when it comes to Slalom training programmes for the junior paddlers, which is the point being made.

I believe there should be a separate identity, with coaches representing England, and not British Canoeing as they do today.

[CeeBee]

I could argue that all the home nations programs should dovetail into the GB program.

I believe that there would be merit in the Scottish program running standalone but reporting directly into the GB program (and the Scottish funding coming into GB canoeing) where it would be supported by professional skilled performance staff who care about performance.

Contrast this with how the program is currently run from within the SCA office in Edinburgh (where competition is very much the minority of the membership and largely irrelevant to those running the SCA) by armchair professionals who write a good story. This would benefit the existing 2 coaches who work largely alone as they would then have other coaches to relate to and work with and should result in more of the funding being spend on the program rather 20% of the budget going on administration staff and costs.

You cannot fail to see the difference when you see the superb support model running out of Lee Valley and being supported by GB would be a huge benefit to the coaches and paddlers coming through.

It might also mean that the successful Scottish non Scottish Squad athletes who made the Worlds and European Teams getting more than 25% of their trip funded (compare this with v the much higher funding levels for both the English and Welsh paddlers). The performance funding should be spent on those that have delivered what the aim of the performance programs are which is to deliver paddlers into the GB teams.

[Neil H]

It is interesting to see the varying perceptions here and everyone is entitled to an opinion. I would say such varying opinion can only be detrimental to the sport as it creates division, that is not the fault of the authors though; more like a lack of communication