Post-dated cheques!

[Jerry Tracey]

Note that there appears to be some inconsistency over post-dated cheques between organisers posting on the events threads. Most are adamant that they are a big problem, but the Tees organiser appears to be actually asking for them!

[Dee]

I think that it depends when the competition is being held a and the date on the cheque.

Most organisers will not bank cheques until two weeks before the event. So the cheques need to be valid at that time. If you post date your cheques to the day of the event (or later) then they may not be accepted as we will be banking them before the date on the cheque

If the event is later in the season and the cheque is not post dated then it may be out of date by the time the organiser comes to bank it.

As a general rule I would suggest that you do not post date your cheque unless the event is later in the season in which case I would have thought a date say 5 months before the event would give maximum flexibility

[Canadian Paddler]

Where is the like button for Dee's reply??

I agree with her
cheques dated today of 5-6 months before the event, whichever is the later. (BUT entering more than 6 months in advance, are you sure? - both that you will want to race, and that the organiser wants to hold on to your cards, and not lose them, for that period. Obviously more trusting than me / believe that the organiser is more organised!).

[lesf]

Yes, Dee is correct.

The reason for my asking for cheques dated no earlier than 1st June for the Tees race is so that they will be in date as we tend to bank them just before or after the event and don't want the hassle of chasing replacements for those that will be out of date.

And yes we were getting enquiries from people wanting to enter and know what the enhanced entry fee was a few weeks ago! (In fact I had someone asking in November who they could send entries to!!) This is just a continuation of the problem last year where Div 1 events filled up and no-one wants to be missing out this year.

[Kelso]

I guess we all have our own ways of processing entries.

I consistently
- Record any cheque (record the cheque number, payor and competitor), POs, cash etc. on the day I open an envelope.
- Check for signature (I receive a couple without signature each year)
- Check for any date (I write the day's date if this has been left blank)
- Check amount, and initial the amount on the entry card.
- Add the entry to the Start List.
This a spreadsheet which includes a column for amount due, amount paid, and balance due/over.
- I also keep running accounts of the event income and expenditure.
I check the days totals between the accounts sheet and the Start List.
- Present the batch to our bank that day or next morning.

Our bank (RBS) does not take notice of the date at all. It never has.
Late last year it introduced CDM machines (like ATM machines) in the branch to take payments.
These read the bundle of cheques (asking for confirmation if it cannot read one properly), and print out a photo of each cheque like a long supermarket receipt...

To date, I have not had a case of an issuing bank refusing to honour a post-dated cheque.
But I have had cases of cheques more than six months old being refused by the issuing bank.

IMHO It is bad practice to hold cheques unprocessed, as there is risk of being misplaced or lost, or finally being refused by the issuing bank.
Just get the money in the bank.
If a refund is due, we always do this by bank transfer by our club treasurer, who executes my request normally within a day.
In this way, all payment in and out of our Club is properly recorded and accounted.

[Dee]

It's worth noting that not all of us have easy access to the bank. I am certainly not in a position to spend a couple of hours a day going to the bank!

[Dee]

PS

Out of interest Kelso. What do you do if you have to cancel the event. It must be quite a big of work for the treasurer to individually refund each entry. Much easier to just shred the cheques!

[davebrads]

I generally don't bank the cheques until the week before the event by which time I should have a good idea whether the race is at risk of cancellation (though the thought of writing and posting over 100 cheques gives me the shivers). I still want to bank the cheques so that any problems can be sorted out on the day of the race, though even then I won't find out about bounced cheques until the treasurer gets the next statement (not that this happens very often).

The reason for this is that on a number of occasions paddlers haven't turned up to race, but have cancelled the cheque without even bothering to contact me. I think that is unacceptable. Also my opinion is that once the race is closed then everyone on the start list is then committed to the race, and if they can't make it at the last minute that is their look out - I can't think of another sport event that I have been involved in where people think that claiming a refund for late cancellation is their right but I have had the odd run in with those that do when running slaloms. The situation is even clearer in div 1 these days as their entry has been accepted in place of another competitor who has had to be turned away. I have had to miss the odd race in the 30 or so years I have been racing, but I have never expected to claim a refund.

[BaldockBabe]

- I can't think of another sport event that I have been involved in where people think that claiming a refund for late cancellation is their right but I have had the odd run in with those that do when running slaloms. .

That is certainly the case in running events. Some events will allow you to transfer your number to another competitor and some (but very few, mainly the big ones like the London/ Paris marathons) will, if you have a Drs note, allow you to postpone for a year, but most it is the case that you lose your entry fee. Most also state that if the event is cancelled due to something outside the organisers control you do not get a refund either on the basis that most items will have already been paid for by then e.g. toilets/ prizes/ road closures etc.

[djberriman]

I'd simply suggest say a 5 month rule, that way any cheque will be in date. Anything received before that date is shredded. The extra month allows for resheduling of an event or for organisers who cash cheques after the event.

Other than that I think we should thank our lucky stars we have people willing to organise events and just do what they ask as long as it is within the rules.

I think we have enough rules and regulations, dates and god knows what else to contend with, lets not make things more complicated or we will have even less people willing to volunteer to run events. As it is the pool of people willing to do so is getting smaller, those people willing to do so are having to run more events to take up the slack and there are less events.

[Kelso]

PS

Out of interest Kelso. What do you do if you have to cancel the event. It must be quite a big of work for the treasurer to individually refund each entry. Much easier to just shred the cheques!

I had to cancel a major event (not Slalom) a few years ago when the river was at flood level (higher than three weeks ago).
All contestants were up on site (at Grandtully as it happens), so it was straightforward to make the announcement.
We advised all entrants that we would hold their entries for the next year, and refund anyone who asked for that.
As I remember, a few people asked for a refund, which we did promptly as soon as asked.

In the case of our Slalom event, we would offer to refund entry fees (bank transfer only), or hold them in credit against our next event.
I agree it would be tedious, but that is part of the job of administering entries.

In principle, I think it is good to bank all monies promptly, and pay out again if required.
This leaves a clear audit trail which is available for anyone to check.
There is no possibility of anything going astray, which can lead to dispute, misunderstanding and bad feelings.

More interesting would be disposing of 500 burgers, rolls, bacon, etc. perishable catering supplies.
I have a contingency plan for that. It would make me very fat!

[JimW]

Interesting discussion, I'd seen a comment before that most organisers bank cheques a week before the event to make sure they clear, so I had already worked out that 5 months was a good idea on that basis, but obviously that's less helpful for the likes of Kelso (although he hasn't had post dated cheques bounced).

From my point of view, I'm near the bottom of Div 2 in K1, and not likely to be getting promoted, I could confidently enter all the div 2's I like the look of at the start of the year and not have to mess anyone about by cancelling because I got promoted.
In C1 things are a little different, I'm near the top of Div 3 and I fully intend to to get promoted ASAP so I'm not going to be entering anything beyond May, well maybe Fairnilee 2/3/4 in June.

At present I have only entered events up to the end of May because I'm really slow filling in cards, but June and July are pretty quiet for races in Scotland, there are a couple in August, and then I'm away most of september to run the grand canyon, so I can't risk not getting in to the June and August events* or I may be struggling to find events after September if my points are still looking low....
*this may only be an issue in my head, although I believe Grandtully is usually popular?

So aside from the issue of making sure cheques are going to be valid when banked, I have another question...
If I enter a multi division event at the lower division, and get promoted before the event, is it normally possible to transfer the entry to the higher division (and pay the fee difference), or do I have to cancel it and send a new entry (which if the event filled up in between I might not get)?

[BaldockBabe]

So aside from the issue of making sure cheques are going to be valid when banked, I have another question...
If I enter a multi division event at the lower division, and get promoted before the event, is it normally possible to transfer the entry to the higher division (and pay the fee difference), or do I have to cancel it and send a new entry (which if the event filled up in between I might not get)?

It is usual for the organisers to allow you to paddle in the higher division with the payment of the fee difference Good luck!

[Dee]

I have had 12 cheques out of 78 rejected by the bank due to incorrect dates - 15%!

[Dee]

It transpires that a fair proportion of my "post-daters" have been told by "other parents" to post date the cheques to the day of the event. I'm not sure why or how this has come about but it is a pain!