Proposed rule change.

[Dee]

So as we now mention Washburn Div 1 from Last weekend, I would like to point out the following.
On a good not and something to look at Shepperton Dic1/2 at the start of the season had an online reserve list so every paddler without an entry new exactly what there chances were of getting an entry and no one jumped the list. In fact there is a lot to be take from the way Shepperton did the whole entry system on line.
Mitch

Thank you for the compliment. I'm glad to hear that the online waiting list proved useful. The downside was that some paddlers thought there was no way of getting to the top of the queue and then did so - a surprising number of cancellations being the culprit

... no software is provided to manage entries which deals with all the issues invloved and it is very time consuming for the volunteer involved. ......

I'd love to use the online system but it's in it's infancy and unfortunately our event is often subject to a number of constraints which may mean its cancelled, it's only happened once but the though of refunding all those payments is not something I wish to deal with. It will be something I will review each year.
.......

If you have ever been an organiser you will know how much time, dedication and stress are involved for weeks before, on the weekend and for days after often with little thanks.

Agreed that no software will solve all problems (and with all the stress aspects), but I hope that next year other clubs might consider using the system we used.

I am still working on it and this year it is very much in its infancy, but by next year there will certainly be an easy cancellation option (by clicking a button) which will do the refund. Hopefully there will also be a simple option to cancel the competition to do all the refunds in one go, but it depends on how much time I can find!

I did process some refunds for early cancellations at Shepperton and it did work with money going back onto paddler's cards, but it just needs to be a bit more user friendly.

[the_c1_fish]

So at it stands I believe nearly all the Div1 paddlers will send all there entries in next February for the hole season and then decide at a latter date if they are actually going to the event, as you can get a refund if you withdraw you entry.

Actually this is wrong as an organiser does not need to refund the entry fee if you see the actual rule below. I only refund a persons entry if I can get another paddler to take their place. To my belief most organisers don't refund a paddler is they just decide not to turn up.

UK C11.6.2 ENTRY FEES ARE NOT RETURNABLE - except:
- where a Competitor is promoted to a higher division and is thus ineligible to compete in an event already entered. The entry fees will be refunded providing the Organiser is notified AT LEAST FIVE DAYS before the competition.
- if a competition is cancelled prior to the publication of a start list or on or before the Saturday of the immediately preceding weekend, whichever is the earlier.
- if a competition is cancelled due to circumstances beyond the control of Organiser, up to the time that the course is declared open for free practice, (official practice for Premier/Division 1).

I also appreciate most people arent prepared to travel 5 hours on the possibility of an entry, however I gave every paddler the opportunity of an officials entry if they didn't get a ranking run. So every paddler that turned up would of had to opportunity of race. Yes they may not of got the points but to a newly promoted paddler surely the experience of racing is more important and significant than the low points they would have been likely to get.

To your friend who didn't get a ranked run this is because the race was FULL IN FEBRUARY which meant there was nearly 2 months worth of paddlers on a waiting list infront of her. The was also a waiting list published.

And to your comment about clubs running races and getting entries I would like to say that it isnt any organiser.

[CeeBee]

My starting point at a Div 1/Prem race has always been that, so long as people notify me politely in advance, of the race that they are no longer able to attend for whatever reason, then I refund the entry. The used to be very few withdrawals, so this policy didn't materially affect me as an organiser.

The paddler should contact the organiser as soon as they know they are not racing so that the organiser can contact those on the waiting list to fill those spaces. It may be that,to encourage entrants to notify us that they are withdrawing, we should introduce some guidelines for refunds. The sooner someone withdraws, the sooner someone on the waiting list can make plans. So, if you withdraw say
- 3 weeks before a race , you get 100% refund
- 2 weeks before a race, you get 50% refund (unless promoted in which case you get 100% refund)
- 1 week before a race, no refund (unless promoted in which case you get 100% refund).

This is in line with other cancellation policies I have seen.

The 3 weeks,2weeks and 1 week would be the midnight on the Saturday. So if the race is Sat 23/Sun 24 July, then 3 week cut off is midnight Sat 2 July, 2 week cut off is midnight on Sat 9 July and 1 week cut off is midnight on Sat 16 July.

If you are promoted less than 3 weeks leading up to an event you have entered, you need to notify the organiser by the Monday evening following the race to withdraw your entry and get the full refund. Organisers can also use CanoeSlalom to see who has been promoted from Div 1 once the results are uploaded to CanoeSlalom.

Ranking points drive behaviours and I would suspect the majority of paddlers do not want to drive many hours to a race to only get official runs. They may come if they are in a shared car with another ranking paddler or it is only an hour away. Official runs are not the same as ranking runs and you don't get the same buzz of racing in ranking order with those in your Division. Their preparation for racing is also affected as judging run times are often at the start and end of the day and the judge has been judging, often in cold wet weather, just before the run so not ideal preparation.

Another point to consider for those races that don't refund entry fees if a paddler withdraws is 'Is it reasonable for a club to retain the full £31 double entry fee if the paddler doesn't race?" I only pay Levies on the actual paddlers that race. For a Div 1 double the total amount sent to the slalom committee is £15.95 including the £1 judging an £1 timing fee. If clubs retain the £31, then they should be paying the levies, timing and judging fee to the Slalom Committee.

[JimW]

Ah, ranking points are a consideration.

I should probably check the rules, but as far as I remember only paddlers promoted after a date in the middle of the season (1st August?) get short season protection in the new division, paddlers promoted early in the season do need to get some ranking points to make sure they get out of the likely demotion zone.....

So whilst I agree with the notion that newly promoted paddlers should enter full races as officials to build up experience in their new division, the reailty is that a lot of them need points to avoid being bumped back down and facing the same situation the following season. If anything paddlers should be entering the division above as officials for the experience of the harder courses instead of doing paddle ups, by the time they get into the higher division they really need to be able to go racing for real.

[Nick Penfold]

All paddlers promoted in a season get Short Season protection at the end of the year, so they do not need points to stay up. It is only reinstated paddlers who don't have SS protection unless their reinstatement was after 31st July.

[JimW]

All paddlers promoted in a season get Short Season protection at the end of the year, so they do not need points to stay up. It is only reinstated paddlers who don't have SS protection unless their reinstatement was after 31st July.

OK, so points don't matter so much to promotees then, unless they are intending to jump to prem the same season.

Oh, and I don't need to keep scoring in C1, phew! (I will though!)