Opens

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
Post Reply
djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Opens

Post by djberriman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:12 am

I wonder why more events don't offer an open class and wonder if we could encourage more to do so at Div 2 and Div 3 level.

This would help encourage new paddlers, occasional paddlers and allow people to try the sport.

Not everyone is aware of direct entry (does online entry even allow it ---- hmmm one for Dee), not everyone can or wants to be an official.

Not every event has a div 4 alongside and not everyone wants to race against very young paddlers at a Div 4.

So could I suggest we encourage as many organisers as possible to have an open class. I know we always get entries.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Opens

Post by Dee » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:28 am

I suspect that the biggest concern is whether this will reduce the number of officials racing.
I've never come across anyone that can't be given some form of role as an official. Those that don't feel confident to judge can usually be shown how to do the computer entry or judges clerk and if those are too 'scary' then putting the cards in the window or acting as a runner. I accept that there are those that don't want to be an official but that is another matter.

No, online entry doesn't allow direct entry - though paddlers could still send a postal entry. Direct entry is, as far as I understand, not supposed to be a regular means of entry so much as a way of proving capability within a division to then apply for ranking. As such I don't think direct entrants should displace regular paddlers already ranked.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Opens

Post by djberriman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:14 pm

I'm more thinking of those who simply want to enter for what ever reason and would find being an official off putting.

They are probably not 'in' slalom or may be returning/mildly interested and simply want to have a go.

Looking at this from that perspective I don't think they would even consider that they could be an official.

They may then register or become an official at other events.

We have an issue with retention and take up, this may be partly why.

Consider a polo paddler who might go with some mates who already race, just wants to have a go, at a div 2/3 this is not possible unless they paddle as an official. I doubt they would go, but if they can enter the open they can go and give it a try, they might then decide to apply for direct entry to 2 or 3 based on their performance.

Our club has been having discussions as to why more people don't go and I think this could well be one of the reasons. We actually exclude them from the sport.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Opens

Post by Dee » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:20 pm

So is it a question of more opens or publicising direct entry for paddlers from other disciplines.

Two ways to crack a nut? :)
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Opens

Post by Dee » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:32 pm

PS Not against more opens but can see why they might not be popular with some organisers
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Opens

Post by djberriman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Unsure why it would be unpopular. I guess you are saying you'd have no officials.

if your div 2/3 doesn't run full every year worth considering. We only got a couple last year, from memory that is pretty normal. Does however mean anyone who wants to can race.

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Opens

Post by JimW » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:26 pm

I have commented about this before.
It is pretty unclear in the rules and notes for organisers, but every div 2 already has a "Special Open Event" and if non-ranked paddlers turn up with BC(SCA/WCA/CANI) membership and want to enter it I think we have to let them!

The notice you have to give the special open competitor is in the organisers pack, I always print some just in case, and do try to spread the word to local clubs and non slalom friends. The notice clearly says that there is no requirement to apply for ranking and you may continue to enter the special open event at division 2's for as long as you like.

I would probably abuse the system and enter them as a guest through postal entries or something if any came forward in advance (none have).

I don't think we need to add an Open race alongside div 2s for this (although I can't think just now how it would work in simply slalom or results to send off), if we do that it will mostly encourage paddlers from other divisions to enter for practise without having to judge. Taking non-slalom paddlers as officials instead of special open entries could work if they are clearly competent to do safety or something, but actual judges need to know the rules, I do also mention to local clubs and non slalom friends that there is also an option of a free entry if they are prepared to give me an hour of safety cover or work in the kitchen or something.

I am completely behind Duncan in thinking we could make more of the Special Open Event at div 2 to bring in more more experienced paddlers who might be interested to have a go.
Only problem I really see is that the few friends who seemed a bit interested, were interested due to watching I think a world cup at LV a couple of years ago? Trouble is, I don't think they are interested in having a go at a div 2 course, they would be up for trying something similar size to LV olympic in their regular river boats...

JoS
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Opens

Post by JoS » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:18 pm

There are some weirdos who help at events they are far too chicken to do officials' runs at :D pretend to be related to me and you can take mine! Half of Malhamdale is already!

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Opens

Post by djberriman » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:50 pm

I'll have to look at what a special open is.

But thanks for the heads up, I have a feeling this will be news to a lot of organisers.

Simply slalom already copes with opens fine?
We've run opens for years and had no issues.

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Opens

Post by djberriman » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:55 pm

I can't find anything about special opens in the rules, can you point me to them?

Found the form (which is a bit out of date), really this is sort of 'direct entry' rather than an open. A bit of both but certainly interesting.

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Opens

Post by JimW » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:23 pm

The form is the only information that seems to exist, but it has been updated with the current ranking officer's details although in the section you can send away for ranking it does pre-suppose that the race is in 2005.
I wonder if it is an older implementation of the direct entry rule that has not been fully kept up to date?

I started via direct entry and the only information for me was on the FAQ section of the website, which has changed little:
"I used to paddle slalom. Must I start again in Div 4? (Getting Reinstated)
If:
You've been a ranked slalom paddler in the past, or
You haven't done slalom but you're already a very experienced whitewater paddler, or
You've paddled in slalom in another country
You can apply to be put straight into a higher division, but you'll need to show some evidence of your ability. One option is to go to a Division 2 race, enter as an "Open" competitor or judge and show your result as evidence. Contact Nick Penfold or use this on-line form to apply for reinstatement."

and later in the section:
"People sometimes decide to enter a race on the spur of the moment. If you explain to the organisers they'll usually let you enter as above, in an open event or as a judge."

As I recall I already had an officials result from a Pinkston div 2 in K1 (I was helping out and didn't know about officials runs until Chris Baillie explained it to me, so I borrowed a boat and had a go!), and entered Fairnilee as an official in C1 and then sent both results to John Woods with a brief paddling resume to get ranked in div 2 in K1 and div 3 in C1. I think it was an August Fairnilee so there may have been an open event that I entered rather than officials.

Either way I was actually looking for ranking, I think your intention, and mine, is to encourage more people to just come along and have a go occasionally without having to get ranked, which the special open form allows, or an open event would allow.

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Opens

Post by djberriman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:59 am

There probably needs to be a bit of a review however these opens aren't 'open' as they aren't publicised in any way.

Our open and others are published on the calendar and we have had inquiries and entries in the past. Currenty there are 3 div 4 opens and 2 div 2 and 2 div 2/3 opens.

When an event has a published open class it would be obvious to most that they could enter.

Anyway just a suggestion that we should appear more 'open' to paddlers of all ages and abilities to have a go including previously ranked paddlers who just want to have a race without applying for reranking or being an official, who knows they may return.

Post Reply