Unofficial UK Slalom BBS

We currently have a trophy that is hard to give out. It refers to the time when veterans where in two distinct and separate divisions.

A number of different options have been floated, some complicated some very complicated.

So how about this prize is given to the veteran that wins most points from division 2-3 competitions, with the other prize being given to the veteran that wins the most points from Prem / 1 competitions?

What do the veterans think?

AND what does the ranking database think, can these numbers be extratced relatively easily.

From what I remember, there was not much space left on it for names (despite me getting it re-engraved to gain space), perhaps it is time to retire it.

That sounds like a reasonable idea, although given the situation with points for the kayak classes now, it's likely that whoever wins the former 2/3 trophy would actually win the class overall for the year, and the former overall trophy would be some way down the rankings. Not that it's necessarily an issue, just a bit weird...

One for discussion in a separate thread, and probably nearer the AGM, but I wonder if there's a need to go back to some kind of modifier to reward those racing at Prem/1's where course are tougher and it's far more competitive than Div 2/3.

Vets is definitely working far better now than it was, with good sized fields this year at quite a few races (10 & 11 at Llandysul and 13 & 9 at Matlock). Someone (can't remember who?) did even mention at Llandysul whether we should now just consider vets as a class in it's own right and assuming it's quorate, award points as per position based on the division.

Paul.

The ranking database can do many things when asked. I'm sure this would not be an issue.

I'd be against changing the points system, it allows VETS to easily compare themselves to Masters in the same event. Its also very simpe.

I agree there is clearly an issue with the difference between winning a Div 2 and coming half way in Div 1.

If you want to make things 'fairer' it would be fairly simple to use a multiplier.

So perhaps for instance a your Div 1 points are multiplied by say 1.4 thus a 300 become 520 which would off the top of my head seem about right.

Oooh, I was only planning to enter Div 1 and Prem as a veteran and just accept that I will probably not get to 500 points in total this year, I still don't think I'll be collecting enough to get near a trophy though!

Llandysul was great for numbers.
HPP not so much but I had a really nice time anyway, even if I did add some invisible ups on Sunday just to make sure I could get all the downs
I also managed to entertain judge George when on the penultimate gate of the weekend I managed to get the inside pole stuck down the back of my BA!

He never told me about that little incident from last weekend Jim. Did he put you off laughing?

Steve

My view on the trophy situation would be as follows;-

The main K1 Men's Vet's trophy would be awarded to the person who secured the most ranking points overall.

The former Div. 2 / 3 K1 Men's Vet's trophy would be awarded to the person who secured the most ranking points overall where that total was still below the points total required to be promoted from Division 2 into Division 1.

Last seasons winner of the K1 Men's Div. 2 / 3 Vet's trophy therefore would have been Steve Bambridge (again).

Steve

Just a couple of things
We did not have an 'overall' best trophy and a 'give 2-3' vets trophy last year. We had 'prem/1' and '2-3' vets trophies no overlap. So if the prem/1 winner gets less than the 2/3 winner that is nothing new. It is just egen the divisions combined we got an overall.

The 'most points but not promoted' was looked at but that could mean two people go to the same races with one ending up 2 points over the cutoff and 1 10 points below. Doesn't that make the National trophy less relevant? No promotions so the two will compete again at the same competitions next year.

Applying factors for prem/1 results, think about it and bring it to the ACM.

I remember being told categorically that vets did not care about points and prizes. Glad I did not believe it.

Well, hang on a moment. Last year at a couple of races I won cake......I am bothered about getting that!!
Yes, I got more points for the Div 2's I did than I got for making the semi's at the British Open, but I wasn't there for the points. I think overall we (Vets) know where we can personally gain the most points if that's what we are chasing. Most of us"newer" Vets are just enjoying to paddle where our kids are or being able to race at any event that takes our fancy.

Should the C1's and K1's all get points compared to the host division K1's? Now, that's my question. That way we could have one list for males and one for females. The current C1 list is pretty small so competing against the K1's might spice it up.
Any thoughts?

I agree with Joel, I’m not motivated by points or prizes (though when I went second vet nationally yesterday you can bet I shared the hell out of it on Facebook!) I just enjoy racing at events where otherwise I would just be carrying boats around. It’s also a way of meeting some great people, particularly recently with a healthy vets entry at both events I’ve been to.
I can get behind the trophy going to the highest ranked vet who wouldn’t have been promoted to div 1 on points, but if I win it I wouldn’t be overly bothered about having it on my shelf for a year.

Jim I have just stopped laughing and thinking about you stuck in a gate with the pole down your BA.
Question is was your Head inside or out of the Gate.

It s really good to see so many Vets competing again.

I remember racing VETs in the 90s and always coming second to Richard Fox.
So the overall trophy is important its got some history.

I am starting to wish I registered Vets this year and would not have a problem with Div2 Vets getting 500 point and needing to equal that in Div 1. That would just make the racing more competitive.

But at the end of the Year it would probably be nice to recognise the highest ranked Div1/P and 2/3
As for C1 then they should also get a trophy as this could encourage more to enter and the standard is already high.
I take it we do have a Ladies Vet trophy.

Now how about a C2 Vets Class.

I too am pleased with how the Vets are now going. I had reservations about the new system, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the current reinvigoration of the category. I'll see you all on the start line later in the season!

I have two possible suggestions for the second trophy:

* Best new Vet joining the category that season.

* Best in a higher age group; eg. over 50 or over 65, etc.

Good Paddling to all!
Jerry.

If my memory serves me right Terry Griffiths has won the Alan Harwood trophy 10 times. I stopped him getting 10 in 2015 but he won again in 2016. If the trophy is not to awarded I think Terry should get it to keep, winning 10 times ia quite an achievement. Seriously thinking about joining vets again next season just so I can get a nice lycra bib.

Good luck everybody.

davie

harratts wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:51 am

He never told me about that little incident from last weekend Jim. Did he put you off laughing?

Steve

No, the water noise drowned him out, and I had a pretty good idea what I needed to do to get unimpaled and get through the gate correctly in the right direction!

Mike Mitchell wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:30 pm

Jim I have just stopped laughing and thinking about you stuck in a gate with the pole down your BA.
Question is was your Head inside or out of the Gate.

Downstream of the gate/pole, I have video of it from the bridge but it is hard to see exactly what happened (long way off, concrete in the way), as I recall I came in too tight to the pole and turned downstream to paddle against the eddy and make room to get round it, and became aware that it was following me...

I think the original proposal, to tot up best 5 results gained in p/1 and in 2/3 separately for each vet makes sense. It may mean that those racing for the No.1 bib are also racing for the 2/3 trophy, but some of the highest scoring vets in any divisions are racing for the 90 bib so it might mean the same person could win both trophies and not get No.1 bib, but is that actually a problem?