Short slalom boat - ???

g_c1 · Post by **g_c1** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:38 pm

Look at this short slalom K1 designed by Corran Addison

http://www.2imagine.net/blogger2005/3point2.html

What do people think?

G

joe coombs · Post by **joe coombs** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:35 pm

It looks a bit odd, but this playboater might be onto something.

I might be worth a try on whitewater.
I think it could be very unstable on the back end with no width there.

Joe

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:14 pm

I'm with him on the length issue, I was reckoning about 3m being ideal. The long stick on the tail I am less sure about. This was tried on an awful boat about 20 or so years ago which I can't remember the name of, and did nothing for the performance of that boat. I think that it will offer the same or more drag than a conventional tail when turning, without giving anything back.

I have the gut feeling that the line of the tail should extend all the way to the end of the boat as this gives you something to work off when the tail is down. I can't explain it any better than that, but it applies equally to boats with rounded tails.

A high seat? I'm not sure about that either - C1's seem to have their seat as low as possible. I used to paddle my C1 with the seat almost level with the cockpit rim - it was more comfortable, but there was less control, and I don't think I could generate any more power.

The extra volume behind the cockpit is an interesting idea. It would have to be tested. Of course it will only help in to squirt you out of a turn if it goes under the water - it may simply sit above the water, giving no benefit at all. Some testing would have to be done.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:42 am

Looked like a BAT with spikes - it was a Prijon Perfekt Dave. Ah nostalgia!!

thin ends that broke and were fixed back by having a steel rod set into them. . . . . The sheer terror of seeing one of these coming towards you when stuck in a stopper!!

Went out of fashion as a) the ends broke, b) the volume in the middle meant relatively high decks and this was the era of 'shuttle reverse gates (if you do not remember these ask your dad) c) rule change for minimum diameters and for me d) I found them a pig to paddle, too slow when we had half mile courses with up to 30 gates.

As for volume behind the cockpit, I remember teh 'turreted' P&H C1, with volume behind the cockpit. Stuff it into a breakout slightly too enthusiastically and you could bow loop accidentally. So I will reserve judgement till I have seen it

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:40 am

i think there is stilll a minimum legnth possable 3.5m but not sure i think this may be why it has the stick

Mrs H · Post by **Mrs H** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:17 pm

I remember the boat with ends like this i'm sure it was called the slilleto and was lethal. It was following that that boat end widths were introduced!

Jimi3000 · Post by **Jimi3000** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:44 pm

does your boat have to the same length at the end of the run?
would you get disqualified if then end fell off?

IF it can break, then why doesnt someone design a boat the starts off long and then has a tail that comes off.
that would make it faster (if Corran Addison is right and the ideal lenth is "about 2.7 or 2.8m.")

almost cheating i guess but i dont think so...

James · Post by **James** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:12 pm

Nahh man, I can see that boat being well fast!

Look at the second till bottom picture. I can imagine it coming out of brake outs so quickly or as he said efficiently and literally exploding out.

I have conjured up an idea for the back of boats in general.

?http://www.freewebs.com/peepo/boat%20idea.JPG

The plates or (or tiles) will be on the stern and as the back end comes up after being dipped, it will propel the tiles and ultimately the boat forward like a pip.
The water can run under the tiles on the boats surface after being used to propel the boat and can also act as a jet shooting out the back.

the actual thing would have less of a channel so the water wont build up too much and smaller tiles so its not so extreme for optimum performance.

If this is a good idea then I bagseed it because its not patented.

What do you guys think?

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:25 pm

I think the link doesn't work

Corran Addison · Post by **Corran Addison** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:55 pm

joe coombs wrote:It looks a bit odd, but this playboater might be onto something.

I might be worth a try on whitewater.
I think it could be very unstable on the back end with no width there.

Joe

The back is pretty wide - its just not that long

Corran

c1mini · Post by **c1mini** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:52 pm

has it had a test paddle yet then????

John Sturgess · Post by **John Sturgess** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:23 pm

Dear Canadian Paddler

(You see I respect your right to anonymity)

It was the Perfekt - but it was a Lettmann boat, not a Prijon.

When I was paddling in Ireland in the 70's they had been abandoned for Slalom, but were still being used for White Water Racing - imagine that when you came to overtake

John

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:47 am

Thanks John, I kneel corrected, a Lettman boat - my only excuse is that Gaybo built both.

Seems strange to river race in a boat that was shorter than a slalom boat, almost asking for racist stereotype comments, if you are not a 'new man' like me!

As for anonymity, does anyone not know who deludes himslef into thinking he can still paddle a canadian - when all I do is drift? The e-mail address and constant plugging for Peterborough Jewel of the East sort of give it away, if you do not know and are bothered, just look for a division vet in Div 1 K1, C1, and half of the only C2 to declare vet in div 2/3

ted · Post by **ted** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:48 pm

Of course it will only help in to squirt you out of a turn if it goes under the water - it may simply sit above the water, giving no benefit at all.

Isn't whether a boat will squirt more about the volume in the tail rather than the profile of it. Maybe for old long slalom boats they needed to be slicy, but some of newest playboats have stubby but very thick back ends and they go on end as easy as anything. And having the volume squashed up means it is likely to "explode forward" as Corran Addison said.

I think the boat looks like it could be really cool, and revolutionise slalom! But I think the way races are at the moment it wouldn't be very competitive, especially in this country - a low Tully wouldn't be much fun! But designs like this could force course designers into more exciting courses - imagine a nottingham race with an up in the office

! OK, but at least regular ups in the washing machine.

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:15 pm

But playboats don't really squirt. Try it, break out in the pocket behind a gateput the tail down, and the playboat will spin fast, but doesn't fly up through the gate.

The reason squirting works in a slalom boat is that the momentum of the boat is converted into the turn, which slices the end of the boat under water. The bouyany of the boat then lifts the stern, which due to its large surface area, pushes the water above it backwards, and according to Newton, the boat is pushed forwards.

If the surface area of the stern is smaller, the effect is reduced. It will also be reduced if it is curved, as more of the water will be pushed to the side than to the rear. Short slalom boats will never squirt as much as long ones, but as long as the tails extend to the end of the boat, and the top surface is reasonably flat, the effect will still be there.