http://hppconcern.wordpress.com/
Im not really sure where the article has come from and I can't really see any particular problems with the changes but can see there is some annoyance at not being consulted (if this is even real)
Theres a bit of a debate on my uni's forum about this. Am interested in everyone in slalom's opinion.
Nottingham Course Changes
As far as I'm aware no date has actually been set for starting the work. People have been guessing that it will be in November because the peak rafting season finishes at the end of October. As for the designs, this is actually the first time I have seen it myself, but I have had rough explanations of what is hoping to be done. Personally I think its all very exciting and should bring the course, that was designed about 10 years before it was even built, up to date.
I read through the article that you have linked to and I feel that the plans have been misinterpreted. Yes it says that all the concrete obsticals are to be removed, but they are all being replaced by the omnifloat system as shown by the red shapes in the river channel. The omnifloats come in various sizes and will mimic the old concrete blocks with the added benefit of being able to move them around to change the features. These features will not be limited to eddies as stated in the article, but can also be used to create waves and stoppers.
The depth issue is an interesting one. The simple fact is that in most places Nottingham is way to deep. The only place that the depth change will have any affect on playboaters is in the looping pool. However, the depth is said to be, on average, 1.2m. I'm almost certain that the looping pool is one of those areas that will be deeper than this and so cause no problems for boats that are actually not much longer than 1.2m!! In the pyramid pool there aren't any features at the moment that would need any kind of depth for a playboater. As for the muncher section, I believe that it is already quite shallow in that hole for playboating and the depth is not being changed in that hole, just on the bit just after it next to the magic roundabout.
It was also mentioned about the shins of those people doing white water rescue courses, I think you'll find that the first thing you learn is to swim on your back with your feet on the surface of the water, but lets face it, Nottingham will still be much safer than any natural river!
As for the issue of a lack of water power to flip rafts, that's just ridiculous. The increase in gradient of the course along with the shallowing of the deep areas will increase the water flow, and so in theory, increase the water power.
As for the shallower ledges to slam your white water racer into, I simply don't understand that statement.
I would suggest contacting World Class and have them explain the plans a little better to you.
I read through the article that you have linked to and I feel that the plans have been misinterpreted. Yes it says that all the concrete obsticals are to be removed, but they are all being replaced by the omnifloat system as shown by the red shapes in the river channel. The omnifloats come in various sizes and will mimic the old concrete blocks with the added benefit of being able to move them around to change the features. These features will not be limited to eddies as stated in the article, but can also be used to create waves and stoppers.
The depth issue is an interesting one. The simple fact is that in most places Nottingham is way to deep. The only place that the depth change will have any affect on playboaters is in the looping pool. However, the depth is said to be, on average, 1.2m. I'm almost certain that the looping pool is one of those areas that will be deeper than this and so cause no problems for boats that are actually not much longer than 1.2m!! In the pyramid pool there aren't any features at the moment that would need any kind of depth for a playboater. As for the muncher section, I believe that it is already quite shallow in that hole for playboating and the depth is not being changed in that hole, just on the bit just after it next to the magic roundabout.
It was also mentioned about the shins of those people doing white water rescue courses, I think you'll find that the first thing you learn is to swim on your back with your feet on the surface of the water, but lets face it, Nottingham will still be much safer than any natural river!
As for the issue of a lack of water power to flip rafts, that's just ridiculous. The increase in gradient of the course along with the shallowing of the deep areas will increase the water flow, and so in theory, increase the water power.
As for the shallower ledges to slam your white water racer into, I simply don't understand that statement.
I would suggest contacting World Class and have them explain the plans a little better to you.
I think the developments could be major improvement for both slalom paddlers and playboaters. However, I do think people are rightly concerned. Whilst there have been rumours about the changes, I don’t think anything has formally been announced. It’s a fear of the unknown situation.
Most of the concerns seem to be little more than scaremongering. Obviously there will still be stoppers and waves, as they are just as essential to slalom as to playboating.
Concerns about the depth are justified though. The changes are being designed by Hydro Stadium, the same company that designed the Dutch Water Dreams course. The Dutch Water Dreams course was designed to run on 4 pumps, but because the course was made too shallow, it now only runs on 3 pumps. It would be a massive shame if a similar mistake was made at Hpp and the course couldn’t run on full flow.
Most of the concerns seem to be little more than scaremongering. Obviously there will still be stoppers and waves, as they are just as essential to slalom as to playboating.
Concerns about the depth are justified though. The changes are being designed by Hydro Stadium, the same company that designed the Dutch Water Dreams course. The Dutch Water Dreams course was designed to run on 4 pumps, but because the course was made too shallow, it now only runs on 3 pumps. It would be a massive shame if a similar mistake was made at Hpp and the course couldn’t run on full flow.
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boater rich
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 1:59 pm
Jimi3000 Its made pretty clear on the blog that Pete Cornes is running it.
The lack of consultation and consderation given for other uses of the facilities are what has got people up in arms. Nottingham is the main location that Freestyle can be practiced during the summer, its a superb squirt boating venue, not to mention recreational and rafting use of the site.
Regardless of whether the fears of the changes are justified notification of the general membership should have taken place to allow all users to provide feedback. The problem with the BCU is, as always, poor communication with its members.
For a longer discussion on this see UK Rivers Guidebook
Rich
The lack of consultation and consderation given for other uses of the facilities are what has got people up in arms. Nottingham is the main location that Freestyle can be practiced during the summer, its a superb squirt boating venue, not to mention recreational and rafting use of the site.
Regardless of whether the fears of the changes are justified notification of the general membership should have taken place to allow all users to provide feedback. The problem with the BCU is, as always, poor communication with its members.
For a longer discussion on this see UK Rivers Guidebook
Rich
The plans being criticised by others are old ones (inaccurate at that!) from approx 2 years ago that were abandoned - not the present ones only that were only released yesterday following a feasability study that has now been completed draft plans have been released. It would have been pointless to consult with any onther users until the study was completed and there was something to consult about! This time has now arrived!
There will be a consultative meeting on Monday 18th August at 6pm at NWSC. It would be great if slalom paddlers could go along and see the plans.
There is likely to be a lot of opposition from the playbvoating/freestyle fraternitiy - even though, like slalom paddlers they havn't yet seen any accurate up to date plans.
Remeber HPP will continue to be the central training site for slalom as well as other disciplines as it is a 24/7 site, not Broxbourne, Teesside or Cardiff - these will be pumped courses, probably with limited use and will be used to enhance training, but for day to day training it will still be HPP. It is therefore imperative that the site is upgraded to International standard for ALL water users.
For any further info please contact me.
Anne
There will be a consultative meeting on Monday 18th August at 6pm at NWSC. It would be great if slalom paddlers could go along and see the plans.
There is likely to be a lot of opposition from the playbvoating/freestyle fraternitiy - even though, like slalom paddlers they havn't yet seen any accurate up to date plans.
Remeber HPP will continue to be the central training site for slalom as well as other disciplines as it is a 24/7 site, not Broxbourne, Teesside or Cardiff - these will be pumped courses, probably with limited use and will be used to enhance training, but for day to day training it will still be HPP. It is therefore imperative that the site is upgraded to International standard for ALL water users.
For any further info please contact me.
Anne
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Canadian Paddler
- Posts: 1480
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:31 am
- Location: Peterborough
- Contact:
Did any one manage to go? If so hpow did it go, and are the consultation documents available anywhere for those who can't get to Nottingham all that easily during the week?
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points
I went along with a few other slalom paddlers. They said they would put the plans up on the BCU website.
As for the actual meeting, it didn't really go that well. It seemed that most non slalom people were more interested in the fact that they hadn't been involved in the planning process from the start than the actual plans. Something constructive did happen at the end of the 3hr meeting, a working party was set up to represent the different disciplines in the in the continued planning and modelling phase. To be perfectly honest though, if compromises aren't made from all parties, there is a good chance the improvements just won't happen!!
As for the actual meeting, it didn't really go that well. It seemed that most non slalom people were more interested in the fact that they hadn't been involved in the planning process from the start than the actual plans. Something constructive did happen at the end of the 3hr meeting, a working party was set up to represent the different disciplines in the in the continued planning and modelling phase. To be perfectly honest though, if compromises aren't made from all parties, there is a good chance the improvements just won't happen!!
A link to the proposed changes. You are best off downloading the PDF documents on t he right:
http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/facilities/sites/
http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/facilities/sites/
It seems a shame that proposed changes that would seem to benefit everyone are jeapodised by mistrust and a lack of co-ordination between th different groups using the facility.
As far as I can see the major concerns are that of depth, which is strange considering that the site will still be deeper that the likes of, say, Penrith or DWD, both of which are popular rafting sites. Also there has been criticism of the omni-float system, again this is bizarre, given the success of the system abroad. At the end of the day, if the different permeations are explored in the winter (when rafting doesn't run and there are very few playboaters on the water) surely the disruption to them will be minimal.
It is also worth mentioning that all users will benefit from the increased gradient of the river, as well as from better eddies and more defined features.
I think that the main reason behind the objection at perceived arroganc from slalom and the BCU at the opinion that we somehow don't care about the other water users. Hopefully with the creation of a working group and better communication all the groups will come to an amicable agreement.
As far as I can see the major concerns are that of depth, which is strange considering that the site will still be deeper that the likes of, say, Penrith or DWD, both of which are popular rafting sites. Also there has been criticism of the omni-float system, again this is bizarre, given the success of the system abroad. At the end of the day, if the different permeations are explored in the winter (when rafting doesn't run and there are very few playboaters on the water) surely the disruption to them will be minimal.
It is also worth mentioning that all users will benefit from the increased gradient of the river, as well as from better eddies and more defined features.
I think that the main reason behind the objection at perceived arroganc from slalom and the BCU at the opinion that we somehow don't care about the other water users. Hopefully with the creation of a working group and better communication all the groups will come to an amicable agreement.