K1M Promotion Solution - just a late idea

phatboy · Post by **phatboy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:50 pm

Hey,

I had a thought earlier on today. There are far too many promotions in K1M from division 1 to prem. I know it's very late but I have a proposal for a way out of this.

Promotion can only be achieved through obtaining 4800 Points, Within which there must be 2 wins. Aternatively the competitor must gain 4 wins across the season.

I believe this would be a great solution to the problems that are occuring, reducing number of promotions per year down to around 5. With an average of 16 division 1 races per year, there would only be room for a maximum of 8 promotions, compared to the likes of 12-14 promotions like we have encountered in the past.

This would also allow for a higher level of competition at division one levels and below.

This system could be adapted to suit other divisions and even other classes if need be.

What are your thoughts on this???

Cheers,

Matt Lister.

Nick Penfold · Post by **Nick Penfold** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:27 am

Sorry Matt - I agree that we need to look at targets, and 4800 sounds about right, but if we added the requirement for two wins we wouldn't even replace the paddlers who drop out of the sport - 11 this year in K1M.
Changing the target to 4800 points would have reduced the numbers promoted this year by somewhere between a third and a half.

oldschool · Post by **oldschool** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:42 pm

What was wrong with the old way of doing promotions to prem? (end of season only). As I recall it meant you needed to have about 4800-4650 points to be in with a shout of promotion, but usually it was 10-12 boats that went up. Its harsh if a guy wins the first 3 races but it used to be quite a season long contest to see who would come out on top, and who if anyone would get the magic 5000 points.

It also means that no one can get to prem without doing at least a year gaining experience needed to handle bigger water.

I would think it would also be more easy to maintain steady numbers in prem as well. I'm not sure what number of paddlers are needed to have a viable division these days but surely 60 K1M prem boats is a bit on the slim side (it was more like 100 boats when i used to be in it!).

Saying that it doesn't seem like there are much over 100 active paddlers in any K1M class, is it time to lose another division as happend to div 5 in the 90's if I remember rightly. That was due to declining numbers and the numbers do seem to keep dropping. ( maybe that should be a new thread though.)

Just my opinion!

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:27 pm

Its bad enough setting a course for 2 Divisions as it is, lose another division and the spread of standards would be too great - probably too great even in one division to set a course that would test the top paddlers without trashing half the field.

What we need to do is recuit more paddlers to slalom and go back to 5 divisions!

PS. In my experience most paddlers take 2-3 years to get to Prem as it is and thats the ones that train every week on bigger water.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:33 pm

I don't think we really need to worry about younger paddlers getting promoted to div 1 and above before they are ready for the water anymore. Most seem to get picked up by World Class Start/Potential (or whatever the programmes might now be called) as soon as they get into Division 2, as their results once they get to Div 1 prove in 99% of cases.

Much more of an issue is keeping those who get demoted from Div 1 to Div 2 in the sport - often a sizeable number of DVs. I think we still have a real problem with Div 2 and no amount of tinkering with 'Masters' categories will solve this.

The basic problem is the imbalance between hard and easy water in the division - there is far too much easy water and not enough hard water. 36 races in 2009 - only 8 that I would class as guaranteed white water (I'm not counting Shepperton at the start of the season because it's too variable), three of which are in Scotland so difficult to get to if you're based in the South East. I'm not suggesting for one minute that all Div 2 races should be at the likes of Tully or HPP, but there needs to be a much better balance of courses. There is little incentive at present for a demotee from Div 1 - who often will be very used to big water - to continue, or at best only do a handful of races. Out of the 15 demoted from Div 1 to Div 2 for 2008, only two raced in 2008 and I don't think the situation was much better in the previous two years.

Furthermore, the inclusion of div 2/3/4 races makes things even worse. I was under the impression that a decision had been taken to discontinue 2/3/4s a season or so ago - Farnilee excepted because of the lack of venues in Scotland - but it seems not. They may work for organisers, but they do not work as slaloms - the range of ability is too large.

A good example of an opportunity lost for 2009 is hosting a div 2/3/4 at Abbey Rapids - a rapid I know very well. Incidentally, I totally disagreed with Nicky Cresser's assessment in another post that the main drop at Abbey would only be suitable for a Prem/Div 1 event - at a good winter level maybe, but at a low summer level it would make a great div 2, certainly no harder than anything at HPP. Instead, we are likely to end up with a course that is far too easy for the top end of div 2 and far too hard for div 4, even if they have a modified course.

The professed intention from a couple of seasons ago was to try and strengthen div2 to bring it back to the good transitional division it used to be between novices in div 3 and good slalomists in div1. Unless the balance of courses in div 2 is addressed with an emphasis on more white water I can only see the division weakening further.

That's my four'penneth anyway

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:00 pm

not sure i should reply here or in the abbey thread, if someone feels like it should be moved, feel free!

basically, I agree that most div 2 paddlers could race down the falls in summer, but i think that some would be put off. I certainly don't think that div 3 paddlers could, not even the top end ones and to run a straight div 2 is completely unfeasable due to the lack of attendees at races. I have no experience of running a div 1 event either and am not sure that there is space in the calendar to add another, so that option wasn't available.

We have thought long and hard about this and feel that abbey rapids can provide suitable challenge for division 2/3 paddlers and is safe enough for division 4 paddlers. The slalom rules state that the course has to be designed with the higher division in mind, which it will. If this causes any issues for the division 4s, they will compete over a short course. This will be determined well in advance of the race and communicated appropriately.

I hope that combining with a div 4 does not put off any div 2 paddlers. If the event is suitably supported this year, we will consider changing the format in future year, as for next year, I strongly believe that the event can be set to suitably challenge all. I do not see it as an opportunity lost, rather a step towards reintroducing slaloms to the north east of england...

Carlr · Post by **Carlr** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:20 pm

Well said Nicky i completely agree.

fison · Post by **fison** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:01 pm

bring it on Nicky as we raced Frost Bite from Prem to Div 4 on the top half and no one ever complained