C1W points - Points and Promotion

Mark Shaw · Post by **Mark Shaw** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:21 pm

I understand where the 3600 figure has come from now and is equivalent to the K1M promotion from Div 2 at least.

We just need Munchkin's number crunching now to agree on a multiplier, using CPs suggested areas to focus the stats on.

Mark

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:03 pm

Hello,
See the points have been posted for last weekend.

Out of interest can anyone tell me what were Mallory and Alice's points based on the Prem race on Sunday were ..

Rgds,
Elaine.

Mark Shaw · Post by **Mark Shaw** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:12 pm

Hi Elaine,

They are based on the Div 1 K1M as though they had entered the Div 1 race, as the other 3 girls had done. This was done on the basis that they would have got worse points against the Prem K1M and could have resulted in the Prem C1W entries getting worse points than the Div 1 C1W entries even though they had faster times on the same course on the same day.

Mark

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:19 pm

I see they have been given Div1 points .. question is what did the points calculation against Prem come up with ??

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:35 pm

I ask to clarify before the proposal for C1W points at a Championship format race is set in stone for another year .. the statement made before hand was that, having qualified, the points would be calculated on the Prem result on Sunday .. bearing in mind Mallory beat 3 of the 20 semi-finalists in the K1M on raw score I'm curious to know what her points were deemed to be and how they were calculated. I believe this raises points for clarification going forward this year its of no real consequence to Mallory what points she receives .. going forward this will not the the case for all.

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:40 pm

ElaineF wrote:.. the statement made before hand was that, having qualified, the points would be calculated on the Prem result on Sunday ..

Actually it was stated that those who qualified would either get Prem points or Div 1 points depending on which was the higher.

A quick check before I go paddling, indicates that that didn't happen so, I will checke them all later, when I get back.

Sorry for the confusion !

Ken Trollope · Post by **Ken Trollope** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:47 pm

As the writer of the points calculating program which takes the output from the timing system. If you are going to change the points system then the best way is to adjust the percentage factor. It works reasonable well for C2,s

For the McConkey as Mallory and Alice qualified through to the final then Sundays 2nd run score was used to calculate the points against the prem men giving both of them 115 points. (Had they not qualified they would have had 115 and 19 points)

However the best score of the two Sunday runs was used against the div1 men giving them 278 and 156 after dividing the corresponding mens points by 2.

I hope this helps.

I am just putting the finishing touches to a Results/Start list programme for all divisions which automatically calculates the points for all classes and promotions for div4.

Ken

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:11 pm

I'm confused who is deemed to be the corresponding man?

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:22 pm

I'm still not clear where the 115 points comes from .. which men's time and points does this relate to?

I can see how the Div1 calculation is derived but not the Prem one.

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:15 pm

Is 115 points gained by comparing Mallory's final time with K1M times on a completely different qualification course? The lowest K1M points scorer on Sunday gained 635 points ....

If this were to be the case then we need to watch as this could lead (with increasing competitor numbers) to an unsuccessful semi-finalist or even qualifier getting more points the the 'successful' finalist who happens to get win with a 50 second penalty... that can't be what we'd want to happen?

Mark Shaw · Post by **Mark Shaw** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:18 pm

Hi Elaine,

I can see where you are coming from but don't think your argument is valid.

Just because Mallory and Alice qualified through to the Sunday due to lack of participation shouldn't give them points taken directly from the semi-final K1M points table. This over-rates their performance against the K1 men.

The 115 points comes from comparing Mallory's Sunday best run time against the Prem K1M results from both days. I know this is slightly skewed because we are talking about two different courses but I think this is the fairer comparison of their ability level against Prem men and hence why we need to look at modifying the multiplier so that the Prem points are on a par with the Div 1 points attainable.

In fact, the Paul McConkey results would be a good test of whether we have the multiplier about right because the result should be equal regardless of whether you paddled Prem or Div 1.

Mark

Ken Trollope · Post by **Ken Trollope** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:39 pm

Ready for the maths

Saturday.
Mallory best run 173.41 modified score 173.41/1.08 = 160.56
Alice best run 257.80 modified score 257.80/1.08 = 238.70

Compare to Prem men
Mallory between Andrew Thomas (178.10) and James Mugford (143.74) therefore gets James points 115
Alice less than last place Mikey Wilson (200.89) therefore gets Mikey’s points 19

Sunday using qualifying results as prem
Mallory final run 165.68 modified score 165.68/1.08 = 153.40
Alice final run 188.30 modified score 188.30/1.08 = 174.35

Compare to Prem men
Mallory between Andrew Thomas (178.10) and James Mugford (143.74) therefore gets James’ points 115
Alice between Andrew Thomas (178.10) and James Mugford (143.74) therefore gets James’ points 115

Sunday using best results as div1
Mallory best run 162.18 modified score 162.18/1.08 = 150.16
Alice best run 188.30 modified score 188.30/1.08 = 174.35

Compare to Div1 men
Mallory between Russ Johnson (152.80) and Matt Sherridan (143.74) therefore gets Matt’s points 556 / 2 =278
Alice between Kyle Bissett (176.85) and Martyn Setchell (170.37) therefore gets Martyn’s points 311 / 2 = 155

Simples

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:52 pm

Hi,

I fully agree that the points cannot be simply mapped across from the K1M results on the Sunday .. as that would have meant the C1W finalists points would have been known as soon as the number of K1M competitors was established on Saturday .. a fair bet being the 10th placed man (even with a 50) would have a better comparative time then the C1Ws .. but do we not have a situation where the finalist can end up with fewer points then a qualifier .. is that what we want? It's of no immediate consequence to Mallory whatever points she gets, I raise the debate looking to the future for all.

Elaine.

Mark Shaw · Post by **Mark Shaw** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:18 pm

I don't think that situation would arise as long as we were prepared to take the best single run from both days. Obviously, only those that qualified to the Sunday would get the opportunity to better their Saturday best run times, as Alice did this year, but I think this is within the spirit of competition.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:47 pm

Okay guys, I am onto about hour 2.5 of my number crunching and have about another 1.5 hours to go! I will put a summary of my results on here and will email a copy to Dave and Colin (as I have their email addresses). If anyone else would like a copy please let me have your email address and I will send it to you!!!

There are several spreadsheets with different multipliers on each, I have covered 1.2, 1.25 and 1.3. Hope that is what people wanted!!!