Race order

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:21 am

Most of the races I've attended start with K1 Men then C1 (sometimes C2 next) then K1 women then C2 paddlers then Judges (although sometimes Judges are first to go)

Is this order laid down somewhere or would it be possible to maybe rotate so that say C1 paddlers start first at another compettion or K1 women start first then maybe at another race the C2 paddlers could start etc?

All the Div 1 races I've been to the K1 women pretty much always come last and when running second runs this can make it a very long day. I know that ideally everyone should stop until the end for the prize giving etc, but in reality if you've got to get away up the road to Northern Scotland stopping to the end on a Sunday is rarely an option given there's usually school (and work!) the next day and of course this is the same for folk travelling up to Scotland from the South.

I know this sounds a bit moany - it's not meant to be. But if a simple rotation of classes is possible then maybe it could be something to think about for next season?

There of course may be logistical reasons that I haven't thought of - if so would be good to know

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:21 pm

The order of classes is not fixed anywhere.

However, if you have a river which is going up or down during the course of the day then classes which rely on K1M results for points calculation (eg Vets, C2) need to be run as close to K1M as poss.

Some organisers will vary the order though so at some events the ladies do go first (I wish they had at HPP on Sunday then we could have had extra time in bed!).

There may also be considerations for judging and so on.

I'm not sure that you could sensibly coordinate the running order of classes between events though - it's hard enough getting the calendar set up for the events themselves!

Know what you mean about the travel though - it really is a killer.

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:00 pm

Ah - hadn't thought about the C2 Vets relyng on KiM results etc.

Yes I guess it would be a bit of an ask on the race calendar

Maybe organisers could, where possible think of maybe changing the order about a bit?

Alison · Post by **Alison** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:18 pm

It does seem a little unfair that the men always go first and us girls are made to wait. If you look at the bala race this week the first K1 man has his practice at 10am races at 12 and then 13:20. So there's a two hour wait then a 1hour and 20 minute wait.

In div one ladies I've a practice at 11.11 (okay a lie in) a first run at 15:38 4 hours and nearly 20 minutes later and then a last run at 16:58 minutes.

It's going to be a VERY long day for us. Yet the men could leave at lunch time. Good job its free to paddle on the the rest of the river.

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:42 pm

Thats a very unusual running order and not typical of any other event I have been to.

Is it correct? Most events run 1st runs (men then women), then lunch, then 2nd runs (men then women).

In this particular case it appears its Men in the morning, and women in the afternoon. Not seen that before (except abroad). It also appears at Bala that Vets, C1 and C2 are in the afternoon so that throws out any suggestions re them being run with the K1M.

Anyone any idea why the running order is so unusual?

With only an 1 hour 20 between runs thats hardly time to get off the water,refuel etc. before the 2nd run.

No objection to who goes first gives me more time to watch others going down the course and work out lines, see where mistakes are being made, time lost etc.

I've always thought it odd the first down the course have no rescue at the bottom!

Richard Lee · Post by **Richard Lee** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:17 am

Hi there.

Just some information re Bala Mill

Re the runs order - I have had to run the event (which as a Pan celtic and div one is a pretty demanding schedule this year) with the amended run order due to the limited number of judges. I am looking to avoid most paddlers having to judge - running it this way - the Welsh paddlers (K1Men) will be judging, with a request for the other National teams to assist in the team event.

The race information page posted on the website outlines this below.

Judging : In order to avoid invoking rule 54.4 requiring paddlers to judge, the timetable has been amended. Welsh team paddlers will be judging some individual runs. We would ask that England and Scotland teams’ friends and parents can do some judging of teams. Please report to control if you are asked to do so.

As an aside - attended a race in Penrith a couple of years ago - where two classes raced back to back at 6.30 am in the morning, finished by 9.00 am and then the other two classes raced at 6.00 pm in the evening finishng the event at 8.30 pm - ready for a semi and final the next day.

Camping - the field has dried out and will be good for parking, however with the number of paddlers attending we are restricting the field to car parking use this weekend.

Water release - the water will be on site at around 9.30 am on Saturday and Sunday - so this might allow many of you to travel over on Saturday morning.

Hope this gives you a little more information as to why the event has been in this way. I am currently investigating some Lord of the Rings style cloning of judges to assist in future, although those Orcs are a bit heavy on the pencils at the moment.

Enjoy the weekend

Richard Lee

Dadstaxi · Post by **Dadstaxi** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:01 am

Understand the issue regards getting judges BUT isn't there a requirement for competitors to have a 2 hour gap between runs? Couldn't it be arranged that the ladies do their 1st run straight after the Official practice, then do their second runs AFTER the K1M have done both their runs. At least that way all competitors will get a reasonable break between runs (time to refuel, take stock of 1st runs, plan 2nd runs etc.).
Alternatively those paddlers being used as judges for the ladies races are sent down the course early on their 1st runs so that by the time the K1M have completed their 1st runs they are changed and ready to take over from those judging to allow the K1W to get down the course on their 1st runs. Don't see how the men all going first is going to alleviate the issue unless those judging the mens race aren't going to get a break and are going to be required to undertake a 3-4 hours stint !! :p

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:39 am

If you look at the timetable it would appear that only 7 people have volunteered to judge that have not been recruited from the welsh clubs. Each person has been asked to do a 1.5 hour stint which is a perfectly reasonable amount of time. If more people volunteered in advance perhaps the organiser would not have had to make the decision they did?

What actually surprises me is that a number of the girls in the Div 2 event on the Sunday (could be the same for the boys but I have not checked) are 1 event away from promotion to Div 1. Perhaps it would have been sensible for them to volunteer and start getting practice in?

Then again, maybe they are worried about breaking their boats/ themselves going over the falls - oh why, oh why did I think this was a good idea!!!

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:05 pm

Just a quick note to thank everyone involved for a great event. Ran like clock work, good course (both days), great weather Sat, not so bad Sunday. To my surprise didn't find the short interval between runs a problem. Looking forward to next year.