Junior and Vet Champs - Improvements/suggestions

[boatmum]

Hi

Not taken as a rebuff at all

I think the idea of "spicing up" events such as the British Champs is a good one. And agree that for non-paddlers the event itself could be a bit boring - especially for younger siblings who don't paddle etc.

As you say it could be a great opportunity to get folk from other disciplines - canoe polo, play boating sea kayaking - (dare I say it sprint!? ) whatever to come and give some demos / info / quizes / games even - I think something like this would stand a better chance of getting off the ground if this part of the event was organised by folk who were not actually organising the race - just to share the burden ??

[c2canoeslalom]

Hi again guys,

I'm back from a very very wet Europe trip and taking some time out from writing me thesis to try and collate some of your thoughts and discussions.

I'm particularly interested in the extra curricular activities which could take place in conjunction with the event. I am involved in the competitive rafting circuit whose events have had positive feedbacks for talks conducted by members of current and past GB teams as well as safety and skill development workshops for competitive raft racing. I think it would be sweet if we could find the resources, manpower and motivation to get the ball rolling at a slalom event such as the junior and vet champs. I think that boatmum hit the nail on the head suggesting that this would need to pioneered by someone other than the event organisers. Nontheless, this is all food for thought.

I'm a big fan of coaching and find coach ed programs to encourage me to reflect on the way I train and analyse my personal performance as well as support athletes I work with. With the new discipline specific slalom modules coming online, as well as generic support modules such as sports psychology and physiology I'd suggest incorporating some of these in to the weekend. I'll speak to Russ to discuss the practicalities of a canoe england run workshop.

I think that we have a pool of ideas which I'll feed back to the committee which will hopefully stimulate some constructive discussion. The next meeting is on Saturday, however please continue discussing the matter on here or drop me an email as I believe that this will be a long term project to hopefully get the best for all paddlers and support crews!

Cheers

Gareth Wilson
Paddler Rep

[Nicky]

my thoughts...

really like the idea of other stuff going on, maybe have a slalom coaches conference at the same time, saturday evening to share thoughts or have a particular theme?

stuff during th eday would be good, but may need to repeat to ensure that evreyone can go to what they want to?

in terms venue, why not have it somewhere where the water can be varied, or course can be moved to take account of ability. Bit of clarity needed i think! Consider HPP, qualification saturday, run in conjunction with a 3/4 in either the back canal or the darlecs, semi final final on sunday in conjunction with a 1/2. Puts more people at the venue anyway so that people aren't travelling for just one thing and if a good show is put on they will return in future years...
abbey rapids, same races, but saturday finishing above the falls, sunday race over, tryweryn, tully, there is a lot of scope for doing this at lots of different venues.

have a bit of wwr/polo/sprint on too, there is a lot of scope to make the event bigger and get more people involved.

Only problem i see is that there would be a lot of work involved in this...

[lesf]

While the idea of a central venue has appeal, the travelling distance arguement is a stong one. Currently the events are at a location for two years at a time, meaning it could be 4 years before it comes near you (relatively). This is more of an but an issue for juniors rather than Vets/Masters.

Eg. an Aberdeen** based junior could, unless they are prepare to travel a significant distance, miss 4 years when they could be competitive at the champs waiting for it to come back to Scotland. (** replace Aberdeen with your choice of far flung corner of the country as appropriate).

Simply moving the event round annually would be a start to making it accessible. Possibly with a north / south england rotation so every other year it is a bit closer to the extremities.
ie
y1 Scotland
y2 Wales
y3 northern England
y4 southern england

(i don't want to start a debate on what is north / south england)

But the key issue is how we raise the profile of the events to attract more people. I like the ideas about ensuring there is something for the non-paddler (a valid point for any event?) and the idea of added extras (coaching, coaching workshops etc). And could we do more to highlight the champions?

Spliting the junior and vets events may be a way forward, but I think it is a case where you will never please everyone. Harder water will put some off, but so will easier water.

This may already happen (I've never been), but perhaps sub-classes of champion vet in each division (likewise for the Juniors) as well an overall prize would encourage additional participants from the lower divisions? Even if you know you're unlikely to win the overall title there is something to go for?

Les

[GreenPeter]

We go to the champs because were addicted to competetion no no no, I mean because the whole family gets to paddle at the same event.
How about a 1 parent and 1 offspring class. Just declare you team before the event ( for a nominal fee!!) and then add the 2 totals together from the individual runs to get a result, just an idea.

If the event is to be continued in its present format perhaps rotation should be yearly. Lets pick on East Anglia, from a travelling point of view it doesn't matter to us if the event is at Fairnilee or LLandysul they are both a considerable trek. So if we were only to do the English events we would have a 4 year gap before we did another event, which is plenty off time forget about the event. Would a shorter gap keep the event in the mind more and encourage competitors to travel?

[Mr Munchkin]

As neither a Junior or a Vet I'm not in a position to add much to this useful discussion, but I thought this list might be of interest. I'm aware it is slightly incomplete at present but it shows the location of the British Junior and Vets champs over the past 16 years or so:


1994 May Wagon Lane U14/U16 Champs
1994 July Holme Pierrepont British Vet Champs
1995 May Wagon Lane U14/U16 Champs
1995 July Holme Pierrepont British Vet Champs
1996 June Holme Pierrepont British Vet Champs
1996 June Cardington U14/U16 Champs
1997 June Cardington U14/U16 Champs
1997 July Bala Mill British Vet Champs
1998 July Holme Pierrepont U14/U16 Champs
1998 July Bala Mill British Vet Champs
1999 March Cardington U14/U16 Champs
1999 April Matlock British Vet Champs
2000 April Matlock British Vet Champs
2000 July Cardington U14/U16 Champs
2001 March Matlock British Vets & U14/16/18 Champs
2002 xxx xxx xxx
2003 May Fairnilee U14/16/18 Champs
2004 May Fairnilee British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2005 May Llandysul British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2006 May Llandysul British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2007 June Cardington British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2008 June Cardington British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2009 June Fairnilee British Vets & U14/16 Champs
2010 June Fairnilee British Vets & U14/16 Champs
[2011] [October] [Llandysul] [British Vets & U14/16 Champs]

[Dee]

I think the answer is that it needs advertising to promote it more. It also needs explaining in the yearbook/website that it's open to all juniors and veterans and not just the invited/selected. The first time we came across it, we travelled all the way to Llandysul and just raced at the div 2 on Saturday and went home again on Sunday. Even when we were actually there, we didn't realise that we all could have entered on Sunday as Vet and Juniors.

I would agree with this - we did a similar thing several years ago. Recentish entrants to the sport just don't realise that they are eligible to enter.

Having said that to get the better juniors and thus make the event mean more then better water seems the best route. I also agree with more frequent rotation and a nod at those in the south!

[Seedy Paddler]

I think we have to define the objective of the J14/J16 and Vets champs. At their inception memory tells me that there were far fewer good J16 paddlers cometing in Div 1/Prem. Hence a lesser standard championship acted as an encouragement to develop. However is it really a Championship event when held in conjunction with a Div 3 class race?

If it is about retaining old farts and developing youngsters as a bit of fun then we should consider bringing in additional side shows (coaching classes, fun evenings etc.) If we want a prestigious championship then it needs to ellevate and be run alongside Div 1 events. Perhaps as an alternative to a Double Div1 we have a Div 1 and then Vet/Jun Champs. Run on challenging water with a high level of judging and timing.

Rotation benefits in some ways but detracts in others, however with limitations to number of Div 1s there are potential options for Grandtully, HPP, Abbey, Shepperton, Tees, Trywerryn etc.

Just think before we change we need to define what it is the objective, at present it is a bit of fun but certainly I wouldn't regard it as being any form of British Ranking.

CD (one of the wrinklies)