Editorial: Portable Points

[davebrads]

I am totally against the introduction of portable points, and I believe that is for good rational reasons, not simply rejecting change.

The main push for this is to allow access to more people onto good quality water. The problem is that this is not going to happen, at least not at division 1 events, as they are already full. You will give access to division 1 paddlers to race in Prem races, but the only course that isn't available to div 1 paddlers is Lee Valley. The division 1 calendar is already pretty full, there is no need for additional races, perhaps a better spread but that is not always so easy to arrange. In fact one result of portable points is that paddlers will race at less venues, as they will choose only to race at local venues, with the result that some southern paddlers will miss out on the experience of racing at Grandtully. Considering the lower divisions most races cover two divisions anyway. The real problem is that too many division 2 races are held on sub-standard water, and with the division getting stronger there should be races on the harder courses available. So it seems to me that we are turning our very successful divisional system upside-down in an attempt to solve a problem that will not be solved by portable points.

Division 1 events are already viable, as they are full. Premier division races may not be viable, but that is because the division is too small. With division 1 being too full I would have thought the solution to this one was obvious.

We were caught out by the increase in numbers in division 1, but that is really down to a lack of foresight. The problem was starting to rear its head in the 2014 season, and a lot of paddlers (or at least their parents and coaches) were aware of the repercussions of this - that is why there were so many entries posted off at the beginning of the season. It seems to me that all we have to do is set a target size for the division.

Absolutely we have lots of paddlers wanting to race, but the problem is a limited number of race slots. Portable points does not address that issue and so it will fail.

Another major concern of portable points is that it will take paddlers out of judging. When I started paddling, if you wanted to race in a higher division you judged, this was accepted, and the result was that we weren't scratching around for judges like we are today. All these proposals for increasing access for paddlers to higher division races do not consider the effect on the volunteers, surely if we really do value our volunteers we should be considering the impact on them as a priority, but in fact we don't even consider them last because they don't get considered at all, and it is left to race organisers to pick up the pieces.

[BaldockBabe]

but in fact we don't even consider them last because they don't get considered at all, and it is left to race organisers to pick up the pieces.

Never has a truer word been spoken...

[harratts]

Here, Here Dave,

I think that you have captured exactly the reasons why the Portable Points introduction should at least be postponed at this years ACM if not abandoned all together. It does nothing to deal with the real issue of the current Div. 1 Bottleneck and in fact even adds to that issue.

I'm afraid however that these arguments may fall on deaf ears amongst those trying to get such a new points system introduced.

Steve

[Terryg]

Agree with all the above. It seems we are trying to improve things for the few, at the expense of the many.
If this goes through I think it will drive many people out of our sport, including me.

[AndrewG]

Is there a silent majority out there that are in favour of portable points?

So far, excepting the Editorial, I have neither seen nor heard much support for the Portable Points.
However, several who oppose this motion have posted on here to say that they fear this will still go through.

Are those in favour just less inclined to comment on something that they agree with?
Are those posting on here un-representative of the majority view of their clubs?

[SilverSurfer]

I think portable points is only being discussed now because the masses didn't think about it before, didn't consider it a serous proposal and therefore never opposed it.

Unfortunately, this enabled portable points to gather momentum, resulting in the proposal getting passed at the ACM last year.

I don't think the same will happen this year, with the majority voting to reject portable points. Whilst I think this is the right decision, a lot of hard work has gone into portable points, and those involved should be thanked for their best intentions and hard work.

As pointed out portable points only benefits a few in the sport and doesn't address the real issues that need addressing.

[TOG]

The real problem is that too many division 2 races are held on sub-standard water, and with the division getting stronger there should be races on the harder courses available.

That's good to know (and there were couple of Div 2 events on the Legacy course in 2014) but it's worrying to see some of our more testing venues across the country not hosting events at this level either this year or next.

[djberriman]

I have to say I am very dubious of every bullet point in the editorial and can not see how any of them will be acheived by the introduction of the current PP proposalwith the exception perhaps of div 1 paddle ups to prem.

Also consider this sceanrio (for example).

A Div1/2 with 70 div1 paddlers and 40 div2 paddlers becomes a div 1 with 70 div 1 paddlers and 40 paddle ups.

Say all div 1 paddlers beat all div 2 paddlers, in the proposed system the last div 1 man gets 373 points instead of 14. So by the end of the year could have 1865 points rather than 70.

Say the the div2 paddlers come above half way, The top div 2 paddler gets 600 say points, thats more than a win in Div2 (500 points), the next 10 or so also get more than a win in Div2, and the next 10 or so get the equivalent of coming in the top 5 at a div2. That's a lot of points and the potential for a lot of promotions.

I think there are potentially some good ideas in portable points but there are currently too many things that don't appear to have been thought through, my own thought at the moment is that pp would work if it ran much as now so that the points in the ranking race are not affected but PU results are compared to the ranking race and points allocated which can be taken back to the lower division (x2, max 1000). This would just be an extension of the existing system so its not just a win or 1000 points that is allocated, and on promotion any paddle up points (original value) are kept.

[djberriman]

PS.I do agree with the last point in the editorial.

We have lots of active paddlers who want to race: do you really think the solution is to limit their opportunities?

Sadly I think that is exactly what single division events only will do.

[Jeff]

There are other problems too for portable points.
In my case as a lowly Div 3 paddler I usually enter the Cardington slalom, which this year was a 2/3/4.
When I enter I am entered into the start list as first-come-first-served.
With portable points it would probably run as a div 2. The host division competitors have priority. So I wouldn't know if my entry had been accepted until very late in the day,
This is not acceptable.

[boatmum]

I totally agree with the above posts. Additionally if there is no appetite to continue with the existing divisional system - which is how portable points comes across as - then rather than tinkering with what is in place, would it not be better to put together a proper project development plan contributed to by all stakeholders?

Personally I think the existing system works pretty well - paddlers progress through a system that delivers increasingly difficult water and courses. Those who are good enough in races can measure themselves against their peers and if they win they quickly gain promotion. It wasnt so very long ago there was a general concern on this forum that paddlers were progressing too quickly for their skills sets!

Also - a thought - where there might be say a div 3 race and a div 2 race on at the same time in close geographical proximity to each other - given all races can only be one division with this system; and a large number of div 3 paddlers prefer to paddle up then I fear div 3 and to an extent div 4 races will be killed off - a lack of paddlers as well as a lack of organisers!

[paddlerparent]

A few considerations that may have been overlooked:

1. There are still a similar number of races in all divisions in 2016 vs this year so organisers are either on board or are making this format viable

2. Paddlers who don't want to paddle up will have opportunity in their own division and can progress according to their ability & appetite for bigger water

3. People in higher divisions who don't do so well wont get as many points so will be demoted - this may be a good thing!


What appears to be missing with the editorial is the rational behind the thinking not just the reason for change - so people don't see the whole picture.

As for if its a good thing or not - it depends on your perspective & to a degree what division you are in/hosting races for

[djberriman]

Prem and Div 1 are about the same, there are 10% less in Div2, and about 40% less div 3 races.

There aren't usually any Prem/1, and few 1/2's but there are alot of 2/3, those races have had to make a decision which way to do and as Div2 is more likely to make it worthwhile running an event its hardly suprising nearly half the Div 3's have gone!

[CeeBee]

Duncan raises a very valid point about the reduction in Div 3 events. Many events were run as Div 2/3 to make the event viable. Is there any reason why under portable points, we cannot have Div 2/3 events? I have real concern that we will lose paddlers by not having enough designated Div 3 events. Yes, paddlers can 'paddle up', but I'm not convinced that those ranked in the bottom half of Division 3 would either want to do that or enjoy doing that.

[paddlerparent]

Is there any reason why under portable points, we cannot have Div 2/3 events?

If there are multiple events then there will be no preference for paddlers entering in the higher division - Races may become full faster but its possibly a solution to the issues around lower division organisers comments & those paddlers comments

Well raised CeeBee